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Part 4: Dr. Cook chats with Jackee Stang from Delic Radio

April 2, 2020
Listen Time: 
1h 12min
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Tune in to another fireside chat with Jackee Stang and Dr. Cook. Listen to an emotional conversation, where Jackee shares her personal mental health experiences and lessons learned throughout this global pandemic. "I'll give you a mulligan - a few mulligans," says Dr. Cook. We all have a "free pass" as we navigate this journey the best way we can.

 You are listening to the Bio Reset Medical Podcast with Dr. Matthew Cook. We are going to touch on a variety of health topics during this podcast today. If you have questions or want to talk more about your own symptoms or issues, you can always reach us at 650 888 7950 or visit

You can find this Bio Reset podcast and others on iTunes, Spotify, and all other top podcast directories, as well as on bio reset The following is a discussion with Jackie, Stan of the Delic Radio podcast.

How are you? Well, I'm alive and healthy and I don't currently have covid that I know of. I, so that's good. I, uh, I'm mentally, mm, I wish I could say, I wish that I could come on and just be like, you know, bank Greenfield and all these other, you know, and, and Matt Cook and just like high energy all the time and just like, good, I'm doing it my.

My, my, uh, cytokines levels or whatever is, is that even a word? Cytokine? Cytokine. My cytokine levels are ao. Okay. But mentally I'm super, I'm in a hole. I'm in a dark hole. But, uh, I've been here before and, you know, one foot in front of the other. What, uh, what do you think the mental hole is about? Uh, I was, I was triggered.

It's like it was an emotional trigger. Oh.

Well, you know, it's interesting cuz I don't know, we were having this conversation the other day a little bit. Everybody that I'm talking to is a little triggered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems that, I think I was triggered because someone else was triggered, but, um, but I, I learned a, a huge lesson and so that's a blessing.

Um, and it's relevant to my, it's relevant to my mental health story. You, you know, what is, do you wanna know something that's interesting? Yeah. I'm gonna give you a mulligan for, for being triggered. What is that? Oh, so in golf, there's this thing like, let, like, let's say they count the number of strokes that you hit, like each time you hit the ball, it counts.

And so you want to hit it like the least amount of times possible. But there's this expression in golf where if, let's say somebody doesn't hit a very good drive, then they'll say, you know what? I'll give you a mulligan and then you just get a second shot for free. Right? And so it's, what's interesting is, I was gonna give you a mulligan anyways, but like for sure, I'm gonna give you, I'm giving you kind of a free pass for being triggered.

Thanks. And the, the I, it's this interesting idea of if you can start to, and I'm saying I'm talking to myself when I'm talking to you, right? Mm-hmm. Is to then to then start to give yourself a little bit of a free pass and then those triggers, it's kinda interesting cuz I was telling you I generally never get triggered.

And I did get triggered by somebody also yesterday. Right? And so then I was like really trying to figure out what to do because, because I was a little bit, um, had a little bit of, we were talking about righteous indignation. I kind of wanted to just pile on my attitude. And then today I, and I didn't have any time, but I, I just called this person and was super nice to them for like 10 minutes.

And that was interesting for me. And it was also interesting for me because I realized strategically I should have never had that call yesterday because I was, I knew that they were not gonna agree and I knew that they were gonna trigger me and I was probably gonna say something I shouldn't. Mm. Right.

You, your gut told you you shouldn't have the fall, but you did it anyway. But I did it just cuz I was kind of pissed and so I just said, you know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna do this. Yeah. I've been there a million times and. It was interesting cuz then I was like, we were talking about it today during meetings, and I was like, you know what?

I knew I shouldn't have done that. Plus I'm probably like the, the, you know, maybe not the, the, like, I, I, sometimes I'll see other people who are able to negotiate their way through stuff and they'll not get triggered. They'll just be like, well, I wish we could do it, but we just can't do it because these are what the rules are and somebody's gonna be, there's somebody's, somebody doesn't like that answer and so they're kind of triggering and they're trying to kinda get under your skin.

But the people who are good at this, and I'm commenting on it because I'm aware of it, but I'm not amazing at this skill because I've, I've historically let people get under my skin and then I just kinda let 'em have it. If they, if I feel like what if their behavior is not appropriate? Right. Because you're, um, an empathic person, right.

And we're, we're empathic in the same way. And so if they try to trigger me, I generally invite that in and go after them. Yeah. But, and then ask me, ask me how many times out of a hundred that works out for me, how many I think that probably works out for me. Like zero times out of a hundred. Right. Cause though, cause generally the person on the other end will can't, doesn't have the capacity to feel the passion that you have for whatever's, whatever triggered you, whatever is driving you.

And so it's just, it's sort of an irrelevant conversation because you're just not speaking the same language. Right. So it's a relevant conversation and yet, It's kind of interesting, like this is an interesting conversation for me with you because I have the same problem that you have, so then it might actually be useful because what I'm doing is I'm just kind of being vulnerable saying, oh yeah, I totally did that yesterday too.

Yeah. Except I don't, I'm, I'm starting not to, I'm starting to reframe it less as a, just a blanket problem. It's not a problem. It's, it's a, it's a problem for me in a way that the greater power that B is trying to tell me something very important and as stubborn as I can be, sometimes it takes a few painful reminders of, hello, hello, hello.

I'm here trying to tell you something. And I realized this time, what. What I wasn't listening to, and it's always the same message. It's, it's, um, no, like you are everything you need. Okay. And so it, it takes I guess, a lot of people a lifetime if not even then to, to listen to that voice. But in my experience and the hard lessons that I learned interpersonally, it, it's that message.

It's not about the other person. It's that I walked into a situation because that ultimately hurt me because I didn't value myself enough to begin with. And, uh, and this whole year, it's been about a year now that I've spent learning those hard lessons as a, as an entrepreneur in a new industry. And, um, Finally came to the realization that, yeah, it's annoying to waste a year or to feel like you wasted a year.

But, you know, ev there's a, the, the prescription is different for everyone. And, uh, and sometimes you don't, like for me it wasn't, I know the feeling you, you the, the voice inside telling you, oh, I shouldn't have that phone call. You know, I know what's gonna happen on that phone call. Um,

are you with me? Are you, are you putting here, are you doing an IV right now? I'm literally doing an iv, which is amazing. I love it. I know you have like a blue glove on Oh yeah. Because safety first. Safety first. Um, so, So that's, so I love that you just said that because it's what, like, for me, it's just getting more effective and so these are just opportun this, so then, then this is just an opportunity for both of us to be more effective, to be more effective.

And I think bringing it back to like the, he, the physical health conversation, it, it's so relevant to the, to this emotional conversation because the more on point your body is in terms of firing the way that it's built fire and you know, you're in flow state and everything's, everything's rocking. The more that's happening, the more you can be emotionally, I think you can be emotionally aware and present.

Okay. So for me, a lot of, um, my lessons come outta nowhere, right? So I don't even feel that initial, I shouldn't do that. I know I shouldn't do that, and I do it anyway. A lot of times I get just like an email outta nowhere from an asshole, um, trying to dig at me for whatever their reasons are, but it triggers me and then I go down a rabbit hole and spin out because, you know, cuz I'm passionate.

Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's a longer story than that. There's a, there's a much more, there's a much deeper lesson in this one for me that's more about, um, my voice and the patriarchy and all of those deep conversations. But, um, Well, but like that you told me, I would say, of all the things that you've ever told me, one of maybe my favorite was, I was like, I don't know.

We were, it was just like, I was talking to you and Matt one day, and then I was like, what's the title of your book? And you said, tons of misogyny. A shit ton of misogyny. Yeah, it's true. And I, I'm not even a feminist. I don't even know what that is. I, I don't like read feminist literature and, you know, I, I don't ascribe to that box, but so many of my professional lessons come as a result of like facing misogyny, um, at, um, at the cost of feeling super alone and isolated and.

Scared and confused and sad and all of these things, um, that generally go along with being an entrepreneur anyway. Right. But there's a, there's a, there's like, there's a little extra element to it when you're a female and it's like this, it's this quiet veil that isn't always like, you can't always articulate what it is, but you see it and you feel it.

And in my case, it takes men, actually men who I love in my life to kind of point it out to me and they're like, oh no, that's, that's a man trying to control you. And, um, you know, in the psychedelic space, it's interesting because there's, I mean, you think about the top five, most recognizable, psychedelic, influential names, and they're all male.

They're all white men. Um, and the space in general is pretty. Lacking in diversity or at least the aboveground space, I think, and probably the, the underground space too. And, um, it's, I, it's always shocking to me considering the, the subject matter because psychedelics and plant medicines have the, have the potential to really, um, hack through that kind of an energy hack through that like power trip, um, vibration.

And yet it's so rampant in the psyched, the current psychedelic space that it's like, it's, it can throw me every now and then listen to this one. I, this is so good because, you know, it's interesting. I probably, and it's interesting like. It's embarrassing for me to say this one too. I was basically kind of not really very aware that misogyny or just like discrimination of what against women existed because I was just doing whatever I was doing.

You know what I mean? And then I became aware of it, and then I realized it was kind of everywhere, right? And then plus of the pt, the PTSD work that I do, all of a sudden, then the last three or four years, all of a sudden I started seeing all kinds of people. And so then I realized it's totally rampant.

We, there may have been a edit there, I realized it's totally rampant. Um, and so then no, we're just gonna leave it in by the way we're gonna leave it. But, um, but so then what happens is, like you told me that line. And so then I probably told 20 or 50 women, I'm like, oh, I got this friend of mine and she told me that the title of her biopic is gonna be tons of misogyny.

But then we realized she's gonna be okay. And then all everyone smiled because it like acknowledges that it exists, it acknowledges that it's real. And then like what happens is like these conversations that I'm having with you, like I have this conversation every single day in my life. And so then what I started doing is I started, tell, I was telling you this yesterday, I've just started telling people like, oh, just go listen to my podcast with Jackie cuz you're, you have exact like how you feel, millions and millions of women feel just like you do.

And so then that I'm, and this is sort of my defining idea of like talking to you like this is, I think, What's gonna happen is, is you're gonna start to feel super supported, like by other people, and then you're gonna become kind of a beacon of it's okay to be Jackie. I I, I hope so. And, uh, that's all we really want, right?

That's, it's like, yeah, most women feel that way, but we don't talk about it just like men, you know, you, you don't really talk about your gender shit with each other either. I don't think. Um, you're out golfing and giving each, giving each other. What was that? Am mulligan We're we're giving, we're giving each other mulligans.

Cause we're, we know that we're kinda somewhat failures, but we're gonna make ourselves feel a little bit better about it. Yeah. And, uh, I, I, I'm gonna get there. I, I, I feel down today. Because I care so much because, because hard lessons really fucking hit me in the face super hard. But, and yet I feel now even more certain that I'm going to get where I wanna be.

And that is like, through all of this fucking bullshit. It's just, um, it's just really scary. And we're, we're meant to, I don't know where I picked up along the line. This, this feeling of needing to have idols or as I call them now, false idols. Um, but I got into this habit because of misogyny, because of, you know, whatever father stuff or just not having a lot of confidence growing up.

Uh, thinking that I needed to, well, on the one hand, it was ascribing narratives to people in an ideal way that wasn't necessarily true to their real nature. But also just having mentors, right? If you're lucky enough to have even one really good mentor at which I've had maybe two, maybe three so far, and, and that's, and that's like the human condition, right?

Like we're, we teach each other. Hopefully that's what we do. Um, the older people teach younger people, and, and that's how we get through life. That's how we evolve. That's how we get better. And if you're lucky enough to have really good mentors, you and you're a good student, you feel so much gratitude for the, that human interaction.

That rare intimacy that I, in my case, would, you know, I would take that gratitude and kind of, uh, occasionally I would conflate it to other people who I was putting in that mentor box but didn't deserve it cuz I didn't really know them and they weren't actually my mentors. And I did that this year, uh, with someone who, you know, it's kind of a big name in the psychedelic space, and realized that it was all just this narrative I had created in my head that he was not actually this, I, I didn't even know him and he is not really even worthy of my, um, Of my reverence in that way.

And then I had a moment of realization where he showed his true cards and he turned out to be this sort of like, you know, man behind the curtain. Another Oz, um, figure. And I'm, again, I don't know, I'm so, I'm sure he is a nice person in his private life, but professionally, the way he showed his hand was super misogynistic and kind of like, you know, I'm the king of this castle and you must, you must bow under my thumb, and who the fuck are you, um, Jackie stang.

And it was just like, okay, Jackie. Like you have to use your own voice. We can't constantly kind of live or die by other people's voices. And, and a really good way to do that is to get your fucking gut healthy, you know, to get your body right so that you're reg, so that you can emotionally regulate.

That's a good one. That's a good one. Um, what, so, so you know how like there's this idea like, oh, you're gonna be okay. Mm-hmm. I think what, what happens is sometimes I love how I've got this blue glove here. So the, sometimes I feel like what happens is we, the story that we tell ourselves is that there's somebody that came into our life that might be our ticket to freedom, right?

Like, and often that's someone who's in that kind of mentorish box. And so if there's this person that's in the Mentorish box, we put them way up on this pedestal because we're thinking that if we're in this relationship with them and they're with us, that we're gonna be okay. Right. And so then all of a sudden, all of our hopes and dreams are pinned on them helping us.

Now the reality is that they're probably just like some mildly helpful person, and it may work out and it may not work out, and probably 50 50. But, uh, but we, we conflate that a little bit. And so then the, but managing those expectations is difficult because we're really trying to pin, we're trying for this idea that it's all gonna be okay.

But, but then interestingly, that is like my alternate perspective is that you just run the energy, like everything's gonna be perfect. It's gonna be amazing. I think that's how I came up with it. Cuz I'm almost just like saying, oh, whether this guy or this woman or whoever your people are, whether it works out or not, you're basically gonna be great.

And so how do you, what is a hack to, cuz I mean, I've not been like actually diagnosed with anything specific when it comes to mental condition. Um, but when I get into these deep, empathetic, sad spots, being able to say, pull myself out and like, say, Nope, everything's gonna be okay. It's gonna be great.

Being able to make that switch is impossible. Like when I'm deep down in Okay, it's, it almost feels, it's not even an option. Like I can't even see it. So how, you know, it's like figuring out what that is and finding hacks to like, okay, I'm in the spiral. What do I do now? What practical thing can I do to stop the spiraling out?

To stop the bleeding?

Stop the bleeding. That's a good one. Yeah. I thought you might like that one. So probably I would say put a tourniquet on,

but, uh, so, so, um, so then this is the thing I think, um,

There's a little bit. Part of it is like just skills like me recognizing like last night I recognized that I shouldn't call this person, but I did anyways. Right? So then now what's gonna happen is tomorrow, if that happens, it's soon enough and I'm gonna be like, you know what? I'm the worst person to have this call.

I'm gonna have Barb call them. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so then part of that is a little bit of strategy. You know, part of that is just, and I think

if you had four or five of those things, and then right when it happened, if you called me, if we processed through it, I think you would realize, I almost always feel like by the time I'm done talking with you, We re we come to some realization that whoever this is isn't worth the time that the talk took the talk about 'em.

Right. But, but at the time, and I'm not saying this 50% to you and 50% to me at the time, it seems just like total chaos. And so part, there's a, the hack is to suspend disbelief just enough to kinda like have this conversation, you know, with me or somebody who's neutral. You know, Matt's saying he's kind of neutral.

He's like, operationally, it's kinda like we, I like what we said. Like he doesn't care. Like we would both be wrong if it just meant that we got to dinner on time, you know? Right. But that's all that he, in this case, that doesn't work. Uh, because you know, you want somebody who's is. Like an empathetic person, but uh, yeah, I know what you mean.

But not everybody has that, I guess more so maybe now that we're all stuck at home and we can call each other, um, right. But, but so that, that's because, so then I think this one is like the, a self-knowledge thing because it's, this one is a little bit like replaying the game tape. Like they talk about this in football.

So like what happens is, is there's a football game on Sunday. Yes. And then do you know about this? I was a cheerleader doc. I understand God. Okay, cheerleader. So then, so then I'm obviously not telling you anything that you don't know, but, so then what happens is, can you replay the tape up? Then they, they do, they play that and they keep watching that tape, and then they're just sitting there and kind of talking about it like, oh, you, you probably should have gone to the right here because he just tackled you and I know what you mean.

And so I just, it just occurred to me that that little, so this is the lesson this year, that little voice that you mentioned in your story of who's like, don't fucking call this guy. Like, you don't, you don't need to call this guy. That voice happened for me in this, with this person, in this relationship, in, in several relationships.

Like it, like a year ago. Yeah. And so a lot of the feelings of whoa, were just like, fuck, why didn't I listen to that voice? Why didn't I listen to that voice? I could have avoided all of this bullshit. Because you can always pin back that moment of like, oh, that's when, that's when whoever was telling me.

Um, it'd be nice if we could go ahead, huh? You may have thought. Yeah. So I had this conversation with this friend of mine, Sam Wallace. He's a doctor. Shout out to Sam and Huh? Shout out to Sam. Shout out to Sam Wallace. Shout. This is a shout out. It's a podcast. Shout out. That's a shout out. He's a doctor in Western Montana and we were in pre-med together, and he used to talk about, we used to talk about this in relationships.

It's like there's somebody and you wanna have a relationship with them for one reason or another, but then there's this gigantic stop sign that says, stop. But then you think, you know what? I'm just gonna drive by that stop sign. Because for whatever the one reason or another was, it seemed like a good idea.

And maybe we should just keep going. Now I've only driven past like that stop sign like maybe four or 5,000 times, you know, and so and so then, but then knowledge, self knowledge enough to begin to realize, oh, okay, I just drove by that stop sign. So then I, now where I am is, I know I'm super aware if I drive by the stop sign and I kind of know I'm taking a little bit of a risk with this person, or, uh, I don't think it's even gonna work out.

Like, a lot of times I'll be like, you know what? I don't think this is really gonna work out. Uh, but then sometimes I'll just play it through because it's just like not gonna take that much. And if it works, it's gonna be amazing. And sometimes it does. But then also because I'm aware of the fact that I drove through the stop sign for of, of whatever that is, when it doesn't work out, I'm easier on myself than I used to be cuz I'm like, I did totally ignore my intuition on that.

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By reaching out to us at 6 5 0 8 8 8 7 9 5 0, or at our website, It's going to be amazing. You know, it'd be wonderful if we could correlate a healthy gut biome directly to a louder volume of intuition. Cause you know, always say, we say, we say your gut, but there's biological gut.

There's the spiritual gut. We need like a, like a, like a, like a, some sort of remedy for volume, for gut volume. So listen to this one. This is the interesting idea. You know how like we crowdsource certain ideas? Mm-hmm. So there's like, Trillions of bacteria in your intestines, like three to 10 pounds of bacteria.

And then so much of our intuition is like this gut sense, and you could almost say it's like a average of those trillions of life forms that are in us. It's like they're sensing stuff and how good it's gonna be for us. I mean, that would be, that's kind of an interesting idea. It's totally an interesting idea.

Maybe we should animate it. That would be a good animation because that would be really good animation. Because I think now interestingly the, the, if your gut health is amazing, I generally think your health is overall gonna, like you almost never see anybody that has amazing gut health. And then everything, uh, everything else is bad, right?

Yeah. So then that's one. So then making good, making some, so then you can, you can kind, the hack is everything that you do for yourself, like you wouldn't believe how many phone calls that I've had this week, week where people call me and I, they go like, and there's a shout out to this super nice lady that I told her to watch the podcast and then it turns out she's been going to McDonald's.

Mm-hmm. And, but it's just so stressful you can't see any of your friends. You can't do anything that you do. And interestingly, if you eat at McDonald's, it's gonna create mass inflammation and it's gonna create a fight or flight circumstance down on your belly, and then that does kind of numb you. To the chaos of fear and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm. And so, and so then part of part of it is like, we did this, we did this thing where I did the, I go, I am done with fast food. And then we just kept doing that back and forth. Affirmation. Yeah. And she's gonna do it with her husband this week. And then, uh, we came up with an idea that we're just gonna be done with that.

Just done with it. They're still, are they still selling McDonald's? I think apparently, yeah. Cuz she's been going every day. Wow. Here's a, uh, uh, sideline question. So, The medicine, the malaria drug that they're using for covid treatment. Harlequin. Yeah. Or Quinn, whatever, whatever. Quinn. So, Quin, yeah. Well, yeah.

So because that affects inflammation positively or decreases inflammation, could you just like take it if you have other kind of inflammation, like from eating McDonald's, the, I wouldn't think of that as an anti-inflammatory drug. Mm-hmm. Um, it does help inflammation in some patients that have autoimmune conditions like lupus and stuff like that.

Um, uh, it, I've talked to probably 50 people, 50 doctors that have treated patients with it, who told me it for sure. Works. Right. So, um, now it's almost impossible to get. And so I don't know why that is. It's like, I don't know if it's just all being stored for the government or what, like it's kinda odd. Um, and hopefully we'll get a lot of access to that.

Um, the, um, the problem is nobody has access to it and so you can't, and so saying that we could use a prophylactically is not gonna be a possibility. Um, what I believe is that the right things to do is going to be, if someone gets an upper respiratory, uh, set of symptoms that sounds like covid, then ideally they're gonna get a test.

But there's lack of access to testing as we know. So then, If, if someone had, uh, a fever and a cough and had potentially an exposure, I would, I would put them on that medication. If they started to have, now it can have some effects on the heart. And so you have to rule those things out. And then if they started to get a pneumonia, I would put them on azithromycin.

In addition to that, I would also put a Zack. Now the combination of those can, can put people at even higher risk of this one problem with the heart. So you have to rule all of that stuff out. Um, uh, and then I would also put them on zinc because part of the mechanism that hydroxychloroquine, uh, has is that it helps, uh, open up the membrane to zinc and let zinc into the cells, uh, which can help to have a bad effect on the viruses, which is good.

Um, and so then I would do a couple other things too. Um, now knowing that means there's some fairly good strategies out there, and then there's a whole bunch of other stuff that you can do that's more off label. And so then what I would do is just know in your mind and in your consciousness that there's a lot that can be done, which kind of then is, goes along with my attitude, which is it's gonna be amazing.

Be amazing, you're gonna be fine. It's gonna be amazing. I, I generally love that attitude. And, um, I do think that people are cracking a bit and they're looking for, they're cracking in ways they might not crack otherwise because they're well at home and they, you know, idle hands. All the devil's playground and, um, People start to just kind of spiral mentally.

Um, which is why everyone's talking about the ptsd. That's obviously the mental PTSD that's gonna come from, um, just people quarantining for the first time in their life, not really knowing how to handle that after, oh, guess what I, after I've got the greatest news ever. Yay. What's that? Uh, so, so that, um, uh, uh, we're, we're obviously working with you on some the PTSD reset, but, um, we're mailing you Ketamine and you're gonna do a ketamine session.

Yes. Very soon. Uh, over Zoom with us. I am super stoked. I'm not stoked for the reasons you might think like, oh, I'm getting ketamine in the mail. Um, because I'd actually, I actually prefer it in an iv, but it's, um, if I had it today, for example, I think I would've, I would've come right out of that spiral sooner and, uh, weakened my immune system less with, because I would've had less emotional stress.

But then what's gonna be amazing is, is we're gonna do this. And then how long do you usually feel better for after you do it? Like five to seven days. That could be like a quarter of the quarantine. Yeah. Or depending on how long it is. So what do you think? So, okay, so we're talking now about, Um, at home or tele ketamine, telemedicine in general.

Thank goodness the restrictions on that have been, um, lightened up. But, um, there's a company in New York, I forget what their mind bloom. They, I think were the first to come out with this ability for New Yorkers. I'm not sure if it's nationwide, but definitely for people in New York to be able to, um, receive ketamine therapy, prescription ketamine therapy by of course, a licensed physician.

Um, which means people get certain forms of ketamine in the mail and then they are told how to consume it. And then I'm not sure, during or after you have an integration or process session with a licensed professional on your computer. Is it during or after? Or both. What we're doing is we're, we're supporting you during the session and then there's follow up afterwards, right?

And so we're doing it. I think we're gonna be doing it in, we're gonna be doing it in every state. Um, I think that's so amazing for people. Like, I'm so excited for people and it's not that expensive either. I mean, everyone, you know, the market's gonna fluctuate in pricing that's gonna go through that whole thing, but generally speaking, um, the Ketamine itself is not that expensive.

It's, yeah. But we, we, I made a, we sent an email allowed to our, our practice and the bunch of people just were like, okay, yeah, we wanna do it. Can you mail it to us tomorrow? Um, and it's people who we've have. And so I put together a, a protocol of a whole bunch of things that are gonna make your mitochondria work better.

And then, then we're gonna give you the ketamine. And this is, as you know, ketamine works way better when you get n e d and all of the stuff that we do. Well, everything works better with N A D, but yes, for me, everything actually true. But then what, um, it's gonna be cheaper than in the office. So how great is that?

And, and, and this, this reframing, it might be that like, if you can kind of like change your angle on things at ho at at home, it's like all of a sudden, like what I always feel like with ketamine when I talk to people is that it's kinda like people see, oh, I'm gonna be okay. Like, I say that a lot, but I feel like, like I remember one day you were like, oh, you said, oh doc, I'm actually okay.

Right. Like, and, and, but it's not, it's not like you get that in a little bit. It's like you get it and you viscerally totally feel that. And I think what's gonna happen is people are gonna go into this visceral acceptance that they're gonna be okay during, while, while they're in quarantine. And so then all of a sudden that changes everything because then what's gonna happen is you're gonna come out of quarantine on the other side, kind of with this new realization.

Because if you can get through that and be good, then you can get through anything. I, I just had a great thought, a very impractical thought. But what if God, what if we could give the front lines health workers, like intersperse, ketamine treatments? I wonder how that would. Wonder how that would affect their resilience.

I have, I could wager a pretty strong guess, uh, based on my own experience, how that would, um, help their resistance, resilience. But, um, because it's just, it's not really depleting. Like it doesn't, I've only done it with, you know, n a d prior, so my mitochondrial gets, you know, strong and juicy. But, um, okay.

Here's, I'll do this. I'll do shout out. Shout out to people who wanna help. Yeah. If, if you want to like, donate, I'll do like we came up with our protocol or whatever we're gonna do. So then, um, if you wanna donate a session, I'll do two for one. Two for two for one special. Two for one special. So like if you buy a session for a, a, a healthcare worker, we'll just, we'll treat two instead of treating one.

Oh, that's amazing. Wow. And, and it's, you know, it's interesting Jackie, this one, well, I'll definitely do that. So you got one. Oh, okay. Yeah. So then, so then what happens is if you're a healthcare worker and you're like working in, we're gonna, we'll do this for EMTs and, and nurses and just anybody that's working in a hospital that's in fight or flight.

Mm-hmm. And so then you can just go reach out to us at Bio Reset Medical and then we'll just try to, we'll just see if we can, people can donate. Uh, but what I is crazy, Jackie is. It's, this is this crazy moment like where, like in hospitals, if somebody's like, starts to go down, it's like they have virus and the virus is just coming off 'em.

And so then the people have to run into the room and like I did this podcast with my friend Matt, and basically he has to put like breathing tube in them and he's gotta be super careful and not expose all the other people in the room. And yet all kinds, the healthcare workers are converting and the er doctors are converting.

And so people are super, super stressed. And so then we have to support, we have to support those people because they're, they're, they're, i I, they're kinda like the first responders of nine 11. They are, and it's there, it's a beautiful thing, but also a scary thing. There was a wonderful firsthand account on the Washington Post.

Um, social media, it's probably on their site too, but there's a doctor at a hospital in Queens that's taken over from Covid patients and he, he does a very raw in your face. This is my experience. And as he was talking, saying, oh, I wear this mask, I wear this second mask in case, you know, liquids or particulates fly off when I'm intubating somebody.

Um, and then I had this like moment of thought, well, and not by any fault of their own, and this is maybe not true for everyone, but I think that that's going to affect their ability to perform super well when they've got that in their head. It's gonna, like their reaction time's gonna be like milliseconds, slower.

Uh, I would think it'd be only natural unless they teach that out of you in school. I'm not sure. But, but you know what? It's a good one. So then like, so then we'll go back, I'm gonna weave this into this kind of conversation we were having about misogyny and stuff like that. So what happens is your initial trauma, as soon as you kind of change and reframe, it becomes this amazing thing.

Because once you overcome it, it becomes like kind of a badge of strength for you. And then often you end up getting the opportunity to help other people, right? Hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully that's what, yeah, that's the goal. And so then like for me it was like, In a way kind of my trauma was like anesthesia and doing all of this crazy stuff.

And I remember at the time thinking, I don't, I doubt that there's a way out of this that there's a way out for you. For me, yeah. At the time. But then I got out and then it's interesting cuz it was, I finally reached the demographic that I was really, again, in the back of my mind, hoping for all of this time, which was, I talked to a couple anesthesia residents, uh, this week.

And they were like, how do I become you? And I was like, finally, I'm gonna tell you exactly how to become me, and your life is gonna be totally amazing. And so like, but we still need anesthesiologist though, right? We still need an anesthesiologist, obviously, but if you're an anesthesiologist and you wanna do what I do, you would be infinity more happy than you are, right?

Um, but uh, so in a paradoxical way, when I think of all of those first responders out there, I realized that was just me, you know, eight years ago. Yeah. And, and so then I realized, so then as I, if I could help some of those people by giving 'em ketamine or, or just cheering 'em up, or maybe just on this podcast, if they realize, oh, there's, I actually have a pathway to be free.

What's gonna happen? That actually heals me, right? Because then it makes me kinda happy that I did that. And it, it makes me almost look back at the trauma and realize, well, I'm kind of glad that happened because at least, um, uh, it helps me relate to them. And then it gives me purpose. Like this whole PTSD reset.

It makes me feel like, oh, I'm kind of ha It's kind of like if I hadn't done that, it wouldn't, I wouldn't have, I would've no idea what to say to those people. And interestingly, what I feel like is gonna happen is, is, and I feel this is why I'm, so, this is why I was, I, I was kind of pumped when I was talking to you guys the other day is I'm, this is why I'm so optimistic because I feel like we're gonna start to create a community of around healing trauma and ptsd.

And then there's a whole bunch of people that are in trauma right now. And I'm talking to you right now and I'm telling you, we're gonna support you on the other side of this and then you're gonna, you're gonna, the concept is, is that you're gonna be better than you ever possibly could have been if it hadn't happened.

Right. Cause you're gonna go through you, you find gratitude for your trauma. Yeah. You know that where the first time I ever heard that was where, uh, doc is, um, he's fixing his IV legs and don't It's fine. You're fine. I'm just telling the people what you're doing, um, was from you. The first, uh, session we had, I had with you was the first time I had an medical person.

Uh, frame my trauma in a way. And I think by the end of that conversation we had, we had found, we had at least opened the door for me to find gratitude for my, like, drunk alcoholic douche bag, father trauma. And like, what was that, 34 years old. At that point, I, it's like I had done tons of psychotherapy. I had done tons of psychedelics on my own.

I had taken, um, SSRIs, I had, what else? You know, I've gone to cognitive, behavioral, all this bullshit, and no one ever like brought that up. No one ever talked about conflating trauma. No one talked about a way out being oh well, It's a process, but we're gonna get you to gratitude cuz gratitude is your fucking freedom.

And most people, like, they don't wanna hold onto their trauma. It sucks. It's a giant bag of bricks. You're like, oh my God, I can like get rid of this. Thank you. And um, so yeah, you've been so helpful in uh, in uh, helping me unpack that shit and reorganize it on the shelves. Are you ready for this one? Born Ready.

This is a good born born ready. So then, so then this is a, would be pretty good one. And this is, this is a hack is to have gratitude for whatever it was like the trigger of yesterday. Yeah. Because it kinda leads to this conversation. Oh, heres the, yeah, here's the cool thing. I are, I found gratitude for it.

In like a millisecond fa or, you know, uh, a fraction of the time, uh, than I would've two years ago. Okay. I was able to find gratitude for it. The pain is still there, the irritant is still there. The fear is still there. But I learned the less I got to like the lesson sooner, I got to like the, oh fuck, okay, this is what it's teaching me.

And then that fuels you faster. And if you're a person like me who's like going, you know, I'm like going somewhere trying to fucking get somewhere here. Um, you know, I ain't get, I ain't got no time to waste. I gotta get to that gratitude ain. Ain't, ain't nobody got time for that Jackie, ain't nobody got time for that shit.

Yeah. You what? Sweet Brown is one of my favorite mentors. Remember that. Remember that lady Sweet Brown? She had a video that was went viral when the, a video that went viral a couple years ago. No, but I love that name. I missed that one. There was a what? There's a woman and it's, I'm gonna look it up while you're talking.

Funny cuz this woman, it was the African-American woman who, um, there was a video and she, she said something like, bronchitis, ain't anybody got time for bronchitis?

I, I, I, she had a raspy boy. I know you got the covid look. I'm gonna play it. Ready? Okay.

Oh wait, hold on. Helen Muren is, uh, selling me an ad for a master's class. Oh, nice. Okay. Here.

Is it coming?

Maybe Sweet Brown had Covid. I know. Got tab for that. We should bring that back. Oh God bless you. Sweet brown. Sweet brown is sweet. Yeah, it was amazing. She was like singing. It was like Al it was very singing Sony. Yeah. That's amazing. Um, yeah. So then the gratitude is interesting. And you know what, and it's interesting for me to talk to people because, and it's interesting like to.

Figure out how to manage like emotions and then manage, bring something like that up, particularly when traumatic, crazy stuff has happened. Well, and that's, ketamine makes that easier, right? Ke ketamine makes it easier. And then ke on the dose, cuz you can't really talk in some doses. What um, this, so this one I figured out how to do only in about the last four months.

And then, and this has been interesting because like, I'll, I don't know if I told you this, but I'll be like generally just bebopping around in my normal reality, which is that everything's gonna be amazing. And so I'm. I basically kind of feel like that almost all the time, or I'm just in operation, operational mode, just trying to think how do I make things good.

And so then what will happen is I'll be going along and then something will happen that I did not expect that will be totally overwhelming to me. And, and then, and it'll, I'll just, I'll just wanna start crying because it's so overwhelming and like generally it's like the one that got me like recently was like when I had this mother and then next thing I know this child, that as my patient, I find out that was sexually abused.

And so then, I'll be there. And it's very interesting cuz then my team and my staff is all there and like stuff, and it's like the most overwhelming I want to cry that I've ever had. And then what I'll do is I'll, I won't hide it, but I'll just kind of be with it and it'll usually take me about two or three minutes of just kind of breathing and just kind of being there and, and then what I'll do is, and just even just bringing it up kind of makes me feel emotional a little bit.

Yeah. But, but then what I'll do is I'll sit there and I'll be with them and I'll like look him in the eye and I'll be like talking to him. And then what hap uh, it'll take me about. A few minutes of just kind of talking. And then what I'll notice is I'll start to feel the feelings now in, and this is maybe my hack for you on some of the stuff, is because then I'll feel the feelings and it at the, when I start out, it's like overwhelming, crazy.

I want to cry and I don't have a way to rationalize it or get to a safe spot. Right. Yeah. I know the feeling. Yeah. And so then, but, but what I'm, but what I'll do and then, but they'll, and, and what I got to the point of is now I don't cry, but I feel crazy emotional. And then I'll be kind like working my way through it and then what'll happen and.

I'm, I'm doing something kind of with my normal clinical way of being, which is just nice. But then I'm feeling this emotion as I go through. And then what I'll do is I'll start to say nice things to the person to kind of make them feel safe. And I'll kind of like talk to them about boundaries and like being in your bubble and some of the stuff that we've talked about.

And then what will happen is all of a sudden everybody's kind of, we're all this, we're all, we're all together. And then what I noticed is then I'll feel really grateful that I'm at least able to be there for 'em. And then what will happen is we'll come up with an idea that we're gonna totally get over it.

But what, what I, I, I got to the point of I'll, I'll somehow navigate to the idea that it's gonna be amazing from the chaos of overwhelmed emotions. And it's like, I didn't suppress the emotion, but I just let them, and then, and then I'll end up, I'll be like really happy that I'm able to at least be with them.

Mm-hmm. And then what I always do, then I always play a song, right? Because I, I walk around, if you've never been to my clinic, I walk around with this the whole time that your JBLs speaker shout to jbl. That's, we have to do a real shout out to jbl. Um, and, um, uh, and, and so then what's, what's, um, and then interestingly, I'll, it'll just like heal something in me.

I'll feel better. I'll, I'll just start to feel better. I just had a, I just thought of Barb. Oh yeah. I just yawned and I thought of Barb and I thought of her stating recently that there's some school of thought that Dean's yawned as being like a release of energy, which I love because when you can visualize something like that or put like a function to like that kind of a bodily movement, then it's like, it can be very healing.

And, uh, I notice I yawn a lot when we have these conversations and it's not because I'm tired and that I do it with, uh, yeah. With my friend Stacy too, who's a, he's a teacher and it'll be in the middle of the day and she's talking. I'll just start yawning. But it's just like a release, release of release, a release of, uh, Bullshit.

So next time, yawn, ladies and gentlemen, don't think of it as being tired. Think of it as a release. Yeah. Then do you ever have it where y'all, it's almost like you're having a hard time getting a big breath and then all of a sudden you'll take a big breath. Oh yeah. And then, uh, and then that sometimes will release energy.

And so then I, this idea, I want you to practice this idea of when, and for me it's a practice of when I get that overwhelm, then I'm like, oh my God. Cuz when I sit, when it starts, I'll feel like I have no idea at all if I'm gonna be able to get through this one. Yeah. And the, the first time that it happened to me, I thought, I think I'm gonna totally lose it and start crying in front of everybody, and then I don't know what I'm gonna do.

Start running around with your hands. And so I, I just thought that, I was like, this is gonna be really bad. Um, but then what happened is as soon as I did it, like three times now, whenever it happens, I know, oh, this is gonna be totally perfect because I'll just start to, and so then just knowing that I figured out how to do this, how I do it is just probably just how I do it.

But then you're gonna find your way to do that, and then that is gonna be like this, the greatest gift of all time, I think for you. Well, to me it's more preventative. My, my, my, my head is to learn so that I don't walk into situations that. Are gonna end like this. I'm just like, how do I keep this from happening?

Yeah. You just, you just, here's my answer, ladies and gentlemen. Are you ready for this? Mm-hmm. Discernment. Ooh, that's a good, really, really good one. Yeah. You have to practice discernment, which is really a form of self-love and boundary setting that allows you to function in the world, but really open your gates up to a select few who you know, who you vibe with.

How many, how many times do you think in your relationship with me, we've had a conversation about boundaries a lot. Don't, don't you think I've, I've kind of that one. I don't like. I bet you I never had a conversation about boundaries from the time that I was like 20 until I was like 35. I bet you no, we're absolutely not taught boundaries for the most part.

I, I certainly was, and I don't know what the fuck they were. And so you have to become an adult and cry a bunch and like learn the hard way. But I think one of the first, again, something you taught me and I feel kind of silly because I was like 34 when, when this like dawned on me. But you, it was something, I forget what situation we were in, but um, we were with other people and it was somebody else in the group who had like said, started talking about consent and like that consent is important.

They were like to someone else in the room, you know, can I, like, can I put my hand on your shoulder cuz consent is important. And I was like, No, we watched you and I watched that happen and then we started talking about it and you were like, consent is important. And it was like a fucking, it was like the Star Spangled banner went off with like fireworks and I was like, oh my God, consent is important.

Never occurred to me. Or at least I never like vocalized it in that way. Like how silly to be 34 years old, a female and like, that wasn't a concept that I walked around with in my head until then. I know. It's a crazy, and so then that goes to show you how powerful just these little things that we say are coats.

Yeah. Hey, you know what? Um, what's up boss? We gotta, I feel like we nailed it. I nailed. I feel like we totally nailed it. I think that, um, you're gonna release a lot of energy tonight when you sleep. Um, the, do you have anything? What, which, do we have any final things to, to, because I just felt like, what I would like to just tell about a hundred patients in a row to that, listen to this, because I feel like it's, these are, I think we'll look back on this in five years could be like, this was the beginning of like, I just feel, I feel I unbelievably excited for people to begin to kind of try these things on and they're, I think it's just gonna be great.

I think so too. Um, I'm just kind of going with, and I'm gonna like, I've mental note where the end is, by the way, and that it was like two minutes back. Um, but, uh, or we can end it later. Um, so. I'm just sort of going with the flow naturally and not like overproducing it, right? Like I do most, most things and just, um, just like being, allowing the creative part of just publishing semi-private, um, but not super private, but semi-private conversations I think is super fucking cool.

Yeah. And even like, if you're still recording, this is, I I, it's, I it's quite, it's like it helps you be honest with yourself when you're like, so even like, I'm just saying like, I had this conflict yesterday. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And, and then when it, when you make it public, it's kind of, I think it's awesome.

I think it's free. Free. It's freedom. Yeah, freedom. All right, my friend. Okay, me.

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Tune in to another fireside chat with Jackee Stang and Dr. Cook. Listen to an emotional conversation, where Jackee shares her personal mental health experiences and lessons learned throughout this global pandemic. "I'll give you a mulligan - a few mulligans," says Dr. Cook. We all have a "free pass" as we navigate this journey the best way we can.

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