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Dr. Cook Roundtable Q&A Series: Introducing Dr. Harry McIlroy

October 28, 2020
Listen Time: 
1h 15min
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Dr. Harry McIlroy is an integrative physician in San Francisco who combines the best of Western and Eastern medicine to help people live well and feel better. Tune in as Dr. Cook & Dr. McIlroy discuss their experience and perspective on integrated Chinese medicine, traditional family medicine and the current incarnation of functional/integrated medicine. They share their experience treating patients with big physiological problems and the successes using integrative medicine.


 So it really is this idea of an, there's a constant e and flow, a sine wave of life. And by using, um, you know, diagnostics, we're then able to find out where that person is on that wave, and then use whatever intervention. You're listening to a Bio Reset medical podcast with Dr. Cook. If you have questions, we wanna talk more about your symptoms and issues.

You can always reach us at 6 5 0 8 8 8 7 9 5 0. The following is a q and a hosted by Dr. Cook, where he hosts weekly calls with doctors. Nice to be here. I'm, uh, I'm sitting with my, uh, good friend. And so, um, Harry's actually opening the, the Biore Reset San Francisco practice, um, now. And so we've been hanging out a lot and spending a lot of time talking together.

And, um, so a, I just wanted to introduce him and tell you a little bit about him. He actually, uh, went to acupuncture school and, and studied Chinese medicine. So obviously, uh, he's, uh, someone who's, uh, uh, after our own hearts here at Bio Reset and also is, uh, went to medical school and um, uh, uh, did a residency and family medicine and, uh, then became a functional expert.

And I think it was about 18 years ago when we met something like that. Something around puberty. So a while. So we met at a, uh, applying, uh, uh, uh, a functional medicine and clinical practice, uh, uh, I FM meeting actually, which was super amazing. And it was interesting cuz I, I, um, I was standing in the back of the room and I just, I walked in and I said, I'm gonna use my intuition and just try to figure out like a good, the best person to sit next to.

And then I, I just was like looking around and looked and Harry was sitting at a table all by himself and I went over and I sat down and I go, where you from? He goes, San Francisco. I go, me too. So, um, here we are again sitting next to each other, and so here we are. So, um, so welcome Harry. Yeah, thanks. Um, and so maybe what I thought I would do is give us a chance to chat a little bit about functional medicine and some of our approaches.

Uh, uh, Harry knows a lot about cannabis and actually works with, um, a lot of people who are, are using that for, for a variety of medical conditions. So we'll talk about that. We got some questions to answer, um, from the group. Um, uh, but maybe at, maybe Harry give me. Some of your thoughts, kind of from, from 30,000 feet, about your perspective of ch how you integrate?

I I Chinese medicine, uh, traditional family medicine. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so sort of our current incarnation of, of functional, integrated medicine. Yeah. I, thanks Matt and everybody. I think, you know, Chinese medicine in my estimation is really the original functional medicine. It, it, and the original personalized medicine, it's really, um, using the, the didactics that we learn, but then also it's the pulse diagnosis, it's the tongue diagnosis, some of which I use on a daily basis, some of which, um, you know, is more of a repository.

And, and I'm using it as a reflection point. But I think it really is understanding that we're not dealing with populations, we're dealing with individuals. And so using that information, really treating the person in front of us based on their history and, and everything else, um, that, that brings them, uh, in for a visit.

And then utilizing, whether it be Chinese reserves or, or, um, nutraceutical supplements. Um, and then sometimes it's acupuncture, sometimes it's injections, uh, to really help. Get them in a more adjusted, regulated, um, homeostatic place where they can really thrive. Um, and instead of necessarily always looking for the pathology, it's really supporting them, uh, from the ground up.

And I think that it's interesting where cannabis comes in into play with this too. You know, the endocannabinoid system, which, um, wasn't really described until the nineties, but is, is clearly getting a lot of airtime right now. It is. It is the idea that our system is always looking to come back into a place of balance or homeostasis.

And that's so much of what Chinese medicine is at its root. It's, you know, checking the pulse, it's seeing where people are and where their energetic signature is. And then using whatever tools are in your toolbox, whether they be TCM oriented or functional medicine, um, focus and helping that person, um, come back into, into, you know, a, a healthier incarnation.

Oh, good one. So here's a word. Let's talk about this word regulation. It's kind of interesting. And I'm thinking about sort of the Chinese medicine version of it. And I was so impressed. I, I read this article and I went to this lecture on it at Five Branches medical school mm-hmm. 10 years ago where they, they, they did this, uh, they did this study and it was an animal study where they, they put them on anesthesia, drugs that, uh, raised blood pressure and they treated the pericardium meridian and the blood pressure came down and then they put them on anesthesia, drugs, that lower blood pressure, and they treated the pericardium meridian and it came, the blood pressure came back up.

And so there's this idea that if that, uh, that Chinese medicine and that that concepts tends to regulate and balance energetic systems. And I would say that that idea to is, is one of the dominant ideas in, in regenerative medicine now. Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think that, you know what, what we're talking about when, when, uh, the blood pressure is, is, you know, hypertensive or hypotensive, that's a matter of deficiency and excess.

And so it's not that one is, you know, right or wrong, but there're clearly are medicinals, right? They were using, um, uh, they might have been needling the pericardium channel. There's a good chance they were doing different points. Um, and the same thing that you would do with herbs to sort of bring it back, oh, if there's something in excess, you use herbs or acupuncture treats or, or physical manipulations to sedate and calm that excess.

Whereas if there is a deficiency, you're coming in and nourishing from the ground up. And you know, that's everything from more substantive herbs. That's also building points like in, you know, something for a deficiency like Summit 36 is one of the, one of the prime, um, points we use to really help. Build up essentially and give more, um, substance and energy to the body.

And so it really is this idea of an, there's a constant e and fo a sine wave of life. And by using, um, you know, diagnostics, we're then able to find out where that person is on that wave, and then use whatever intervention, right? Uh, energetic interventions, substantive interventions to help bring them back, um, you know, into, uh, a place of balance essentially.

Okay, good. So then I'll take that one. So this morning we were, um, talking about kind of an, an integrative approach to metabolic syndrome. Cause it says we'll stay on a cardiovascular theme. Mm-hmm. Um, talk to me about in general, how you think from a traditional Western medical approach to thinking about.

Metabolics, just like a oral board exam. Geez. So tell me about, tell, explain to me metabolic syndrome. Tell me how you think about it, uh, sort of traditionally, and then integratively, just to kinda lay out the, lay out the, the, the. Lay that as a concept out. Sure. So, you know, the, the concept of having insulin resistance, um, uh, some obesity and hypertension as far as, um, the core, uh, tenets of metabolic syndrome, uh, from a Western perspective, right?

It really is chasing the numbers, typically, right? And so it's, it's either putting them on a statin, um, uh, given an anti-hypertensive agent, um, really recognizing it's like, oh, something is, is is essentially wrong, right? That's kind of what we're saying. And here are some interventions that in, in a lot of ways, very strongly kind of taking a hammer, um, can bring that, that person back to the place where, you know, hopefully they feel better, but also we're looking at, oh, well now they're normal intensive.

Their cholesterol is in a, in a good place to be, you know, is inappropriate. Um, Uh, level, you know, from a Chinese perspective, again, it's really, you know, a hypertensive, um, is an expression of y the excess, the metabolic syndrome. When that's really flourishing, that is a sign of excess, whether it be, um, uh, you know, heart fire leading to, to high blood pressure.

Um, then the flip side of that is what we're really trying to do is, is bring that down and not by directly going after the excess, but by supporting and nourishing. You know, in this, in this sense, it would be the yen deficiency, the substance of the body to help bring them back down into a place of balance.

And so oftentimes a lot of the cardio, uh, tonic herbs are ones that really just help support the function of the cardiovascular system. Rather than going in and saying, oh, this is too high. We're going to, you know, directly and acutely, um, lower it down. So again, it's always looking for, and I think this is one of the aspects of traditional osteopathy too, you know, it's really looking for that, that morsel or that kernel of health and nourishing that.

And if we're able to really feed the healthy part of the organism or the system, then everything's comes back into, um, you know, its natural order or its natural place is. An approach certainly within Chinese medicine and that's why you're coming back and then saying, oh, well we needle this point. Their pulse was excessive.

Now we're gonna feel their pulse or, or over a prolonged period, look at their tongue and see how that's changing. Right. The tongue is really more of a reflection of how their herbs are, um, working. And then the acupuncture, we can acutely see changes in the polls. Okay, good. And so what, how I'm interpreting that which is interest Awesome.

Actually, is that almost to me, one of the most important things is being able to have a rubric or a framework that you can use to. Talk about, uh, a case. And so then if, and, and, and it's if you have a shared framework with a patient, and so often, for example, Chinese medicine, acupuncture is like all of this stuff that you said.

Mm-hmm. So then, now take me through metabolic syndrome from a, let's say, more traditional, just kinda institute of functional medicine, functional medicine perspective, right? So, so again, I mean, looking at, you know, doing the tests, right? Test not guess, and really looking at that, at the, the objective findings.

Um, and then, you know, if, if someone has metabolic syndrome, they might be overeating because of the stress of their relationship or the stress of their job. So really looking, you know, uh, at the. Really looking at, at the causation, um, um, and the history of, of what could lead them to, you know, the disease or, or being out of balance.

And so making sure that you're not, again, sort of using a hammer and a nail and saying, oh, I'm gonna, you know, here's a high blood pressure. So reflexively, I'm just gonna bring that down. It's really looking at the things in someone's, um, uh, life and lifestyle, right? Uh, emotionally. Um, and then also from the standpoint of, of how they're eating, right?

All the, all the aspects that, that build them to that. Because the, you know, metabolic syndrome isn't, isn't an infectious disease that you cut overnight. It's really something that, um, is slowly, uh, deranged and out of balance and, and continues to snowball until, um, you know, the people have demonstrative, um, uh, pathology essentially, or, or the precursors to that.

And so it's really looking at, well, you know, what can we. Come back and look at the history so that we can adjust that, um, uh, and, you know, allow them essentially, again, to come back to a state of balance. We're not born with anything, uh, like metabolic syndrome. So it's really working, um, with the person to, to bring them back, you know, essentially it's a coming home in a lot of ways.

Bring them back to that, um, that state of original health that they, um, you know, typically had. Oh, that's a good one. The, it seems like that's almost a theme that I'm always thinking about, which is, is that like coming back, it it, a lot of people who are in trauma. It as if once that trauma happened, it as, as if they were cast outta the garden and is, and so then the, from then on things are starting to spin outta control.

And if you could just get to that moment where you started to feel, okay, it's interesting. I saw somebody today, it was like, oh yeah, it, everything's gonna work. It was interesting he said that, cuz I only treated him one time and he was like, I'm 20% better. It's like a constellation of like all kinds of stuff.

He said, I'm 20% better. I lost 10 pounds of fat ever since I started doing this. And uh, I realized my life I'm gonna be okay. Like, and, and, and I think, and it's interesting with a lot of times when you do very subtle interventions, um, you'll see uh, not just the biological system that you're working on, but other systems all start to come into balance, which is, um, I would say our, our philosophy probably.

And self-correct. And I mean, I, I, I think, you know, and it's in a, in a way it's a very simplistic ethos as far as recognizing, right. The skill is in, in recognizing, um, what part of the organism, what part of the patient is out of balance, and then having the tools and the ability to support them to come back to that center.

Right. And, and the center is, is where we, you know, everything originates from. Well, we've been talking about the continuous glucose monitor kind of as the, a strategy around metabolic syndrome. What, what, tell us about that. Well, and so, you know, the Dexcom came out a long time ago, but I think the, the newer Freestyle Libre from Abbott is really provocative because it's, it is, they, the sensors last for two weeks.

They're easy to get. They've got 'em at Walgreens. They're not that expensive. And that really, again, coming back to the test, not guests, you know, ethos of, of functional medicine. You're basically empowering the patient to have, you know, typically put it right here on the back of the, um, uh, of the arm. And you're allowing them to say, okay, when I eat this food, what is my, what is my blood sugar doing?

Right? And, and following that glucose. And that really, and then they can also share that with their, with their clinician. That really allows them, instead of like, okay, here's a plan. I did my a1c, I'm gonna. Carry this plan out, let's hope for the best and in three months follow up, um, and get that other way one, see if we're talking about someone with pre-diabetes, whereas this really gives them the, the, the idea and the ability to, to self-correct and do a, a course correction, you know, day by day, which I think is, I mean, I, right.

I mean, that's the whole point. So much of these, the, the diagnostics, if we can, can, can be able to get that information almost in the moment, right. Which is what the continuous glucose monitoring is doing. It really provides agency and, and, and just a, a whole level of, of excellence as far as a tool for, again, both the patient, the individual, um, and the provider that's working with them, whether it's a health coach or a, or a physician clinician.

Um, and I, I think it's gonna be a pretty big, you know, game changer. Interesting. What, um, have you, what is, uh, obviously then once you have that as a framework and a framework that's providing sort of continuous data mm-hmm. Then. Now we begin to start to be able to throw other interventions like peptides and, and absolutely su and supplements.

And maybe, maybe talk about that a little bit in terms of like some of the experiences you've had in terms of working with. With big physiological problems with smaller inputs like that. Yeah. So I mean, I think that in and of itself, having the continuous glucose monitoring with, you know, with a good, uh, diet and lifestyle plan is, is significant.

I've had a lot of success with, with patients, um, over the last year doing that. I think the, the peptides are very provocative. Um, you know, CJC 1295 and Ipamorelin, having that combination that really helps with, um, blood glucose, um, uh, you know, balancing, but it also helps with utilization of blood sugar.

And I think that when people can have those early successes, and I, and I think that the thing about the peptides, again, it's not something where, you know, it's gonna take weeks to get a, a result. People are able to see the benefit of that. Um, in the fairly short term, you know, that that along with the continuous glucose minor is gonna give people fairly, um, quick gains.

And, and that's so much about when we're talking about behavior change, whether it's around, you know, weight loss or addiction. It's giving that people the early confidence to say, oh, I can do this, this, this is working. And I think that that, again, that immediate feedback, um, is so important. And I think the peptides, I'm really excited about that because I think that they're going to, um, really, uh, lead to a much more, um, dramatic, um, improvement in the short term.

And interestingly, Often some results often get people to just buy into an idea mm-hmm. Enough to kind of commit to doing stuff. Yeah. And just the little victories are, are, are super meaningful. I find, and I think that's so much of the, of, you know, of another core tentative functional medicine. The earlier you can get people to have some, some successes, the more apt they are to buy in.

And a lot of these things, I mean, we're talking about metabolic syndrome really at, at the essence of that we're also talking about behavior change, right? And so the more that we can, um, uh, uh, you know, allow people to see that this is something that can happen and here are these very powerful tools to, to, um, give you the confidence to have it be something that you're working on and you're succeeding on, on a daily basis, instead of having it be okay, let's follow up in three months and, and see what your blood sugar is doing.

I mean, I think that, um, I think it's a very exciting time to be working with, with a lot of, um, uh, metabolic change. Now, I'm assuming you're gonna put everybody on the carnivore diet. Um, a hundred percent based on, you know, just, uh, 25 years of being, uh, plant-based. I've, I've now changed my tune and, uh, I'm ready to, I'm ready to do it.

No, I think that right there, there are so many ways to address that, taking people's, um, you know, individual needs and considerations into account and, and, uh, um, you know, again, I think that's where sometimes the supplements and the peptides really can allow you to, to, um, have just so much more success with your interventions.

Yeah. It's, it is interesting to have, uh, I'm excited to kind of engage on the dietary front to, with the diversity of, of, um, thought and idea and, you know, there's such a diverse, where, where we are here in the Bay Area, but also just in the world is such an interesting diversity of. Uh, lifestyle choices from food, you know, uh, particularly thinking about the GI issues.

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And again, I think both of us just being really excited about how the peptides can really fill in a lot of those gaps. Uhhuh. Right.

Talk to me about the, um, the endocannabinoid system and how, where, how that comes in clinically. For you. And, um, and maybe let's maybe start with, you know, we were talking about kind of integrative psychiatry this morning and, and, um, and then maybe we can kind of transition from there to kind of sleep and cancer and wellness and some of those things.

Yeah, I mean, so I think again, the endocannabinoid system is, is found in all, um, verbiages. So it's been around for hundreds of millions of years. Um, it wasn't described, I believe it was in the early nineties. And it really is a system, you know, that I think a lot of the things that we were attributing to the endorphin system were really the endocannabinoid system.

It is a system that at its base is trying to bring us back into a state of, of balance, right? Um, to down excess lifting up deficiency. And it's utilizing the endocannabinoid receptors, the CB one and CB two, um, either with, um, the endocannabinoids we have in our body that's anon, ide, and two Ag or. The phyto cannabinoids, um, you know, primarily not just, but primarily found in cannabis, and that's T H C B D, you know, essentially right now there are about 140 named, um, endocannabinoids along with the terpenes that, that are found in cannabis too.

And so it's, it's. We've had this explosion of hybridization and, and genetic possibilities in the last 20 years with cannabis. And so, um, you know, and that's where a lot of the aggressive breeding, um, really led to, oh, well what can we do with this plant? And, and cannabis, I think, is, Universally, uh, unique, right?

I, I don't think that there is gonna be another, uh, plant that comes out in the next couple years that's gonna have the diversity of application that cannabis has and, and really, you know, to be able to have a plant that by, by adjusting and, and breeding. Um, different, uh, cannabinoid ratios and profiles and terpene profiles, you're able to address, you know, things as far reaching as anxiety to, uh, chronic pain, to oftentimes addressing, um, not just the side effects of, of, um, uh, chemotherapy and radiation, but also there's some really provocative, um, studies coming out around, uh, hormone positive breast cancer and using higher doses of, of, um, both TC and C B D.

Um, you know, again, just the whole gamut of, of so many moving across so many different applications of drug classes where it's really able to, um, have a meaningful impact. And, and I think, you know, one of the other things, so this is all around, okay, here's, here's some discrete, you know, pathology to some extent, and we're going to, you know, address it with a specific cannabinoid and terpene, uh, ratio and profile.

I think the other part of this is just. What happens if we feed the endocannabinoid system? Ethan Russo, who's one of the early pioneers of a lot of the endocannabinoid research, um, described something called clinical endocannabinoid deficiency, right? It's this idea that, you know, life is hard and overwhelming and chronic stress, everything we're, we're chronically out of balance.

And so by feeding the, the, the human body with small amounts of cannabis, We're able to, to sort of bring up and tonify that endocannabinoid system and, and thereby keep, get the immune system back in balance. That's really more around modulation of the CB two receptors. Um, and then when you start talking about pain anxiety, that's really more around, um, uh, you know, uh, CB one.

And, and so I think that just having that daily feeding, almost like the new improved Geritol right of, of the ultimate multivitamin, the, the idea that by, by giving, um, the system a little bit of, of, of an endocannabinoid tone every day through small amounts, these are sub psychoactive amounts, right? A couple milligrams of t h c, 10 milligrams of C B D with a, with a, with a good terpene profile really allows, um, the type of experience where it's not that you take it the one day and you're like, oh my gosh, I feel so amazing.

But it's really doing, and, and we've been working on this doing, um, you know, subjective questionnaires. Pre and post like over 30 days and really seeing that if people are, are, are doing a small amount of cannabis over a 30 day period, they just feel better, right? They're just like, you know what? I'm not as anxious.

I am, uh, you know, maybe I'm a little bit happier. I'm, I'm certainly that depression has lifted a little bit. And so I think there are subtle qualities to it, um, that really tends to, to go along with a lot of the Chinese medicine interventions as well. And so, um, you know, that's more of the endocannabinoid, um, uh, uh, toning approach.

I think when you start talking about, you know, chronic pain, neuropathic pain, it's again going in, um, and it's herbal medicine and this is, you know, at its essence. Pretty different than, than certainly, um, pharmaceutical, uh, prescriptions and then also nutraceuticals and supplements too. It's, it's much more of a personalized approach.

It's like, well, you have this chronic pain that's manifesting, you know, it's worse in the morning. Um, and then, and then it gets a little bit better when you get out of bed and get moving and then as the day goes on, it gets worse again, or it's more episodic than that. Um, and really learning, well, you know what?

I find that this, that, that, uh, you know, a higher preponderance of THC with some mercene, which is one of the more sedating, um, terpenes that helps a lot with chronic pain. That's a good intervention. And you know what? It works for me, um, for five hours. And so then I recommend people usually dosing, you know, every four hours so that they don't have, um, you know, that sine wave up and down.

They're really constant, you know, getting constant treatment. Um, or it's someone with some insomnia and, um, recognizing that if they take, you know, five or 10 milligrams of T H C with some sedating terpenes, 30 to 60 minutes for bedtime, that really allows them to decrease sleep latency and get to sleep, right?

So if they're, if they're, if they've got some anxiety, um, it can really kind of, uh, uh, support that and allow people to, to get a good night's sleep. And, you know, taking it orally, it's typically a longer lasting. So oftentimes that will get them through even sometimes the initial, uh, uh, cortisol pulse early in the morning, um, if they've got some, some, uh, baseline stress.

Um, uh, same thing with anxiety. I have patients that the only time they use cannabis is when they're gonna get up and do a public speaking engagement. And they'll do typically, You know, 10 to 20 milligrams of a high C b D Right. Or even a CBD isolate sometimes. Um, so they're, they're, they're really, it's, it's pretty, um, you know, it's almost, it's almost like when they, when they talk about growing canvas, right?

It's, it's both the easiest plant in the world to grow. It's a weed and it's also, at the same time, the hardest plant to grow. Well, and I think the, there is a simplicity of working with cannabis. It's like, oh, let's just feed your endocannabinoid system, um, very low doses, uh, non-psychoactive. See how that goes.

Or let's go in with a very targeted approach to, we're gonna start with this many milligrams and much higher doses. It's maybe gonna take, you know, days or weeks to titrate up to these high doses. Um, and so it really, you know, it's, it's I think, an easy thing to get started on. Low hanging fruit, being pain, anxiety, insomnia.

Um, and then when you move into more of the complexities, you know, each, each human's expression of what they need, um, uh, is gonna be different. So you're gonna use, um, Uh, you know, different ratios and it's a, it's a dynamic thing. It's not here's your, here's your recommendation and come back to me in three months.

Right. It really is more of a, you know, I often will do short interval follow up and see how they're doing and, and help with adjusting the, um, titration. So then, and I'm gonna dive into each of those a little tiny bit, but in terms of, um, in terms of, in terms of treatment, my sense of, I was talking to you and it's been a real educational experience for me, the full spectrum.

Approach seems to have a more balanced and, and a, and a more optimal experience than, for example, just take a THC gummy. Yeah. Um, maybe, maybe talk about, talk about that and, and, and how, how your. You conceive of the entourage effects and stuff like that? Yeah, I mean, I think again, it comes to the, you know, the whole plant extract or, or full spectrum, you know, as much as possible.

I mean, full spectrum I think ultimately is, is finding a cannabis plant in the field and taking a, uh, a flower off and eating it, right? That's, that's full spectrum is ultimately no processing at all. The reality is, um, to be able to, to create different products and just the fact of, of aging and drying, it's gonna change some, but it really is.

You know, acknowledging the intelligence and the balance, right, of all these cannabinoids, um, and, and, uh, how they really support, um, each other for more efficacy. And I see that clinically a lot. I mean, so take CBD for example. I mean, using a, a, uh, a whole plan or full spectrum extract of a CBD dominant in California.

That var or strain is, is typically A C D C. That's something that is, you know, 20% c, b, d with a little bit of the other cannabinoids. Um, and if you're treating, uh, whether it be anxiety or, or something, you know, more serious like, uh, or you know, more demonstrable as, as, uh, epilepsy, um, or a seizure disorder.

If, if a hundred milligrams is the dose that really helps someone, you know, knock their seizure count, monthly seizure count from a hundred milligrams, let's say twice a day from, you know, 400 to, uh, 10 mil. 10 10, uh, events per month, right? Um, If that same person, then, um, and we see this a lot, gets a c, b, D isolate, right?

Whether, um, you know, essentially whether it's synthesized or it's completely isolated, um, and there are no other terpenes, no other cannabinoids in there. Um, I, I typically don't see it work nearly as well, but if it does work, you typically need to have like a 30, 40% higher, um, uh, dose, right? And so what we really see, um, is that, is that using the whole plant, um, is just more effective, right?

People are getting better results. Um, they're also not having, um, uh, the, the, the bad outcomes with it as much too. I mean, when, when you start talking about using cannabis concentrates and, and there, there are these things called dab rigs where they're heating it up. Su totally recreational, right? Super high.

Um, temperatures and, you know, it's a, from a Chinese medicine production, so super, it's the ultimate Yong of cannabis. Um, you know, you have very acute, um, possibly relief of pain, right? But it's also, um, very uncertain that you're not gonna have a lot of the, uh, tachycardia, the, um, the, uh, Paranoia, some of the very negative side effects with cannabis, and there is an inherent, you know, beauty and knowledge of using the whole plant.

I think that that really softens it out. You know, I mean, cocaine's a very, uh, uh, you know, another example like that. I mean, the coca leaf, um, has been used for hundreds, thousands of years as a general, you know, energy tonic. Um, and that's very different than when you isolate, you know, one of the alkaloids, the cocaine out of that.

And, and while it maybe has its uses, it's. Clearly has a lot of, of, um, of unbalance and it's used too. And I think that's, um, you know, not necessarily to that same degree, but it's the same thing with Canvas. I think that what we're really seeing is this is a very potent plant. It's, it's so complex that it, we really do have this pharmacy and a flour where we're able to.

To play with the genetics and create different, um, cannabinoid terpene profiles that have different, um, actions for different indications. But again, it really is using that whole plant, um, extract. We just, we end up getting, uh, better results. Biore Reset Medical is a medical practice specializing in integrative therapies and advanced wellness protocols.

At Biore Reset Medical, we treat some of the most challenging to diagnose and difficult to live with ailments that people suffer from today, including Lyme disease, chronic pain, P T D, and mycotoxin illness. Our team has a wealth of experience in advanced integrative strategies to get you to optimum wellness, many of which can be conducted remotely from the comfort of your own home.

Right now, our team's approach is to use the most non-invasive, natural, and integrative ways possible. Find out how we can help you by reaching out to us at 6 5 0 8 8 8 7 9. Or at our website, www biocom. It's gonna be amazing. So then I'm gonna go down the pain conversation a little bit, and it, it's interesting as it's kind of an analogy to bring it in.

I, I remember like as clear as like yesterday, I remember it like, it was two hours ago, I went to this lecture and I, it was in 2000 and I was a second year anesthesia resident at U C S F. And um, uh, Pam Pierce gave this awesome lecture of pain as the fifth vital sign. And that was, uh, and that was like a concept that came up and was kind of promoted all over the country.

And so then the idea was, and it was really our field, it was like anesthesia oriented because we came up with the idea. We're not monitoring pain and then we're not treating pain, so we need to start treating pain. And so then next thing you know, well, how do you treat pain? You wanna put the drug that goes to the pain receptor And sure enough, you know, it's like, that's like fentanyl and, and all of the opioids and it's a one receptor.

Uh, in general, almost anything that is a one receptor drug has all kinds of side effects. And basically the body kind of compensates to that over time. Whereas in, in broad terms, I would say, The modalities that broadly influence a system, uh, and particularly like in the entourage effect, um, with multiple different molecules, the terpenes, the thc, the cbd, and that that combination of things that is overall influencing the central nervous system I've seen to be more beneficial as a strategy to optimizing the central nervous system in the setting of pain.

Um, particularly combining that with peptides and, and, and, and other strategies that we use. Mm-hmm. But, um, talk me through. A, uh, uh, that, that topic from, from, uh, from this perspective that you're sharing with us? Yeah, so I, I think the, uh, the, you know, origination of the, of pain as the fifth vital sign, uh, you know, was about when you were having that lecture, like late nineties, a lot of it came out of the VA and, and working with vets.

And so it was this idea of like, the only, the only good pain is no pain, right? So that's the idea of we're actually gonna try to get to the point where, where people aren't having that at all. And so it is coming in, you know, with the hammer, right, with the opiates. And the further, um, the further development of stronger and stronger and more potent, um, uh, interventions and, um, And we see what all the, the problems that came out of that.

Right. And, and I think that one of the, um, really, um, uh, interesting applications of, of cannabis medicine at this point is from an opiate harm reduction standpoint. So one of my early earliest introductions of working with patients in cannabis was about 10 years ago. And it was exactly that. It was working with, um, patients with chronic pain that were on opiates and were having either, you know, didn't wanna stay on them or having, um, you know, pretty dangerous side effects.

And, and, and cannabis is so beautiful in this regard because you're able to come in and, and commingle with the opiates at the same time keeping, uh, uh, again, a very, you know, close pulse, um, on the sedation, right? You wanna make sure that, that typically, what often happens is you start people on, on low doses.

I find the THC to be typically more effective. I know the CBD gets a lot of airtime with that. That's not been mine. Or most of the folks that I know that work with cannabis a lot, um, experience it, it often is the, the THC as it interacts with the CP one receptors, um, can really help, you know, uh, ameliorate and bring that pain signal down.

And that allows you to, at the same time as you're, as you're bringing the cannabis up, you're able to, to titrate, um, slowly off the opiates. And, I mean, I, I've. You know, had had tremendous amount of success with that. And so I think that, um, uh, you know, the idea that, that supporting the body, like you said, from such a multimodal point, um, rather than like, here's, here's the drug, here's the receptor, and we're just.

It's gonna shut off. Um, you know, any sort of ability to modulate that, it's just gonna be a very heavy handed approach. You know, it doesn't work as well. I'll tell you the other thing with working with cannabis and patients is they all, they also, and this is the same thing I think with Chinese medicine, when you're dealing with energetics, they real, they know they're a part of it, right?

They know they're a part of the treatment plan and they have agency, and I think. Anytime we're, uh, able to give patients, um, more control in their, in their healing journey, I think that's always a great thing. And I think that cannabis, um, and I get that, that feedback from, from, um, patients I work with a lot, right?

They're like, they get excited about this, right? And I don't, I don't see that with opiates, right? It's, it's, it's, um, it's, you know, very mandated of, of when you're taking 'em. Um, and so I think that, that cannabis is also really a great opportunity to invite people into, um, you know, it's a conversation around a, a very potent herb and, and, uh, addressing something specific, but also they're like, oh, hey, this is, you know, essentially an herb of food.

You know, what else has potency in power? And I think that that's, um, I just have seen a lot of times people are much more open to other, um, uh, you know, diet and lifestyle changes too. When they, when they recognize that, you know, something from the natural world is really able to have that degree of impact, right?

Cause it's potent. So I think that's awesome. Have, uh, have you had, uh, any experience or thought with regard to terpenes and pain? Yeah, I mean, so I think Mercene, um, which is, uh, also found in like mango, it's, it's, um, it is typically one of the heavier, um, more sedating terpenes. You know, the idea of indica and sativa is, is kind of, those are bygone phrases because of hybridization.

But if you look, you know, historically it's something that was, oh, this is indica. This is gonna give you a, a really strong sedation. It often had high amounts of mercene in it. Um, and so, you know, that's something that, that is more of a nighttime, more of a sedating, um, uh, medicinal if, if you're using that, um, you know, within a, a cannabinoid profile.

Um, whereas other things like laminine, right? That's the zest of, of the citrus family, right? That's a little bit more activating, often found in things historically that people would call a sativa. Linalool is also one of the terpenes that's found in lavender, right? That's gonna be a more sedating, calming, right?

Chilling out, um, uh, aspect. And so by looking at, at, uh, you know, both, again, the cannabinoid. Profiles, right? T hc, um, cbd, CBN is a, is a more sedating, um, cannabinoid. Uh, that's from the further drying out or decarboxylation of t hc, uh, you know, than the rob cannabinoids. There, there are energetics of, of each of these.

And by not just looking at the, at the cannabinoid profile, but the terpene profile, you're really able to have a much more focused approach. And the terpenes are really important. I mean, that's the smell of cannabis is the, the, the terpenes, right? It's the, the cannabinoids are odorless. And so, um, yeah, I mean that, that really is where a lot of the energetics come in.

Um, and it's, I mean, it's, it's, you know, personally I hope this is coming across too, like it's a lot of fun. Um, from a clinical standpoint. I mean, it, it's taken a quite a bit of, of studying. I've been doing this for a while. Um, you know, it's definitely not if this, then that, but, um, it's a really good.

Entree into herbal medicine because, uh, you know, while it's a complex plant, it's still one plant that you're dealing with and has such a wide range of, of, uh, indications that you can get a lot of traction on. Now that's a good one. It's embarrassing. It's like he doesn't even know anything of this. So the, um, so then if you, if I think of like the big defining problems of our era, and so if you like think could be pain, but could be on the psychiatric front, depression and PTSD and anxiety, but especially in, within all of those, there's obviously a high preponderance and association with addiction, alcohol, we talking about opioids and stuff like that.

Um, and, and so then as we sort of embark as clinicians and begin to think about this applying functional medicine principles, Is often in the synergy and the harmony of these things. I, I would say of, of all the things that I may be more excited about than almost anything else is the, is the synergy on, in the addiction side between some of the things on plant-based medicine and then what, which is this kind of 5,000 year old technique over on the one hand, and then what we're doing with peptides.

Um, and, you know, we're, we're, we're having a lot of success with Thymosin Beta four, particularly in some higher dosing strategies, which really seems to be helpful, uh, helpful in terms of resetting the central nervous system, both from kind of a neuroinflammatory and a neuro immune perspective. And, and I think that, uh, as we begin to apply herbs, Uh, some of the plant-based medicines, some of the peptides, and then create total approaches.

Mm-hmm. A we're gonna create harmony and then begin to have a lot more tools to support what are fairly profound feelings for people like anxiety. Stress. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and, and so forth. What, any thoughts on that? Well, I think a lot of the anxiety, the stress, I mean, this is, you know, a, a, a, a big component of that is feeling like you don't, you're, you're not resourced, right.

You're not well-resourced to deal with the situation. I think that, um, you know, again, using things like cannabis, other plant medicine, certainly the peptides, you know, in N A D right? It's like you're giving, you're, you're basically signaling the body that like, You know what? We've got your back. And so that, that in and of itself, and we were just working with a patient earlier today who, um, has some, uh, early cognitive decline and just working with the N A D and really, that had a profound impact on his level of anxiety.

Well, when he's less anxious, then everything's working better, right? His memory's better. He has less stress. And so I think, again, by having this multimodal approach, um, we're really able to, um, engage the patient, get great successes, and, and typically, you know, in a, a, a more truncated amount of time, right?

And so I think that that's, again, coming back to what really helps fuel behavior change. And it's, it's, you know, oftentimes early success, right? People are, I can do this, right? I do have the ability to do this, and I, you know, I've got the tools and I'm working with, uh, with a clinician who is able to support me in that way.

And I, and I, I think that's, you know, exciting. Yeah. And that's a good one. That's, and I like, I loved that consult and. And, uh, this idea of patient empowerment and particularly in, in, in the setting of cognitive change and, and stuff like that. The, obviously we've got a lot that we can do at a fairly high level of sophistication and expense.

And I'm always looking for simple, cheap, kind of easy to do empowering techniques that people that you can onboard and then all of a sudden people start to feel great. And as soon as that happens, then it's super easy to get people to buy into lifestyle changes afterwards because they're, they feel so great.

And, and, and that was what happened there. And so then we, we ended up hardly from, from a certain perspective, not doing too much, but they felt super great and, and then that's a starting place. It's a starting place with, with buy-in, right? I mean, they're like, Super excited and, and really engaged in continuing the work and really digging in, which is going to, is gonna get them great, great success and results.

But then you, then it is, I think the, the level I had this, um, I felt like I, I, I wanna, I wanna talk to like high school kids and I wanna go. Can you imagine that someday you could have the ultrasound and put a needle by a nerve and put stuff around it to turn it back on and, and help it? Like if Yeah. If you told me that in high school, I would've been like, I would like freaked out.

Yeah. I would've been so excited about that. Yeah. But, um, you know, on the cognitive change, you know, we have things like plasmapheresis where we start to reset the, the milieu of the vascular system, the peptide strategies. And there's, I think there's gonna be an enormous amount that we can do. Through, through the immune regulating peptides, the mitochondrial peptides, the nootropic peptides, um, through changing strategies, through optimizing supplementation, through, uh, uh, everything that we do, IV therapy, um, uh, to so many of those people have a, I think a fair bit of anxiety, which makes sense in the setting of feeling like you're losing resources a hundred percent and, and, and especially cognitively.

And then it, and as soon as you have some simple things that make 'em feel a little bit more empowered and, and, and cognitively turned on, all of a sudden changing the trajectory and then changing the story and giving somebody a story to wrap their head around, I think is, is, is quite helpful. And, and, and, And supportive.

Absolutely. And, and it's one thing for them to have a, uh, you know, a really big experience in the clinic, but the beauty of, you know, whether it be cannabis or supplements, other nutraceuticals and peptides, right? The beauty of this is you can have them have take homes and this is something that they can do, you know, on a daily basis to really help support themselves.

And I think that, again, you know, mean we're both seeing that personally within ourselves, but also working with a lot of patients. It's like that, that's where these just really pretty, I mean, quite honestly, I'm a little surprised, right? Surprise, surprising gains that, um, that, uh, we're having both clinically and also just like, I mean, I'm definitely on the peptides, right?

And, and noticing, um, some more dramatic, uh, improvements in results than, than quite honestly I have with a lot of other interventions. And so I, you know, I, the ability to then take that and, and offer, um, those, uh, strategies to patients is, um, is exciting and, and, and something that we're yeah, interested in really getting after.

Um, good. Is there any, is there any major topics? What's your, um, what's your, Phil, what's your philosophical take on, on sort of PTs d and kind of resetting that? Because I know that you've got a lot, you also have a very deep, and I think. Interesting experience in terms of your work with working with psychotherapy along, along with ketamine and mm-hmm.

And some of those strategies. Um, what are, what are your thoughts on that? Well, I mean, I think, you know, Initially there was some traumatic insult, right? And I think we're getting, I mean, there's so much about trauma that we don't know, and we're finally waking up to that. And so it's, it's something that, um, is, is, you know, really, uh, a, a very, um, ongoing conversation that we need so much more, um, uh, insight and education and, and discussion around.

I think though, at, at it, at its basis, right, there is something that clearly knocked the, the individual, um, uh, you know, far from the Garden of Eden. Eden, you know, out of balance, away from home, so to speak. And, um, you know, utilizing some of these again, um, you know, we're talking about, about ketamine. Um, there's some really interesting work going on with maps and, and M D A, um, going through the phase three trials, just this idea that.

By, by, um, giving people, and again, it's not just the substance. I mean, and this is what we're hearing from all these studies. It's both the, the, the psychotherapy, the integration along with the substance. They need to be, you know, part and parcel. And I think that's a lot of the, the ketamine work. Um, I've had a lot more success with actually working with people, you know, pre-session, around setting intentions, um, having the session and then working with integration, um, afterwards and, and, and really just having some beautiful changes that people are, are really able to, um, integrate.

I think that that, um, you know, the more that we recognize that that trauma is real and that a lot of us have, um, uh, been affected by it and it's something that we live with on a daily basis, um, and then. Again, it, so much of this is like having the vulnerability and opening up that conversation and finding, uh, you know, this isn't typically like a one and done, right.

It's like opening up that conversation, engaging in a therapeutic relationship. Um, and then I think the beauty of a lot of these substances is they, the potency is such that it really is, um, you know, able to, a lot of them are working through the downregulation of the default mode network, right? Getting you away from, uh, you know, the ego, the entity that this trauma happened to, and giving us some space between the event and, and really being able to process it.

And I think that that, um, uh, that's where I'm seeing, you know, so much of the success both clinically personally, But also as far as the research we're, we're able to, um, uh, you know, do things again in the context, the setting, setting of, of, of the therapeutic relationship with, you know, whatever the substance is, the pharmaceutical, whether it be plant medicine or pharmaceutical.

And then the, the therapeutic, um, uh, you know, intention and, and integration, um, work is, is really where it's at. And I think that talking to a lot of the veterans and, and, um, uh, victims of early childhood, uh, sexual abuse, um, it really, that's what they say, right? It's not just this, it's not just that it's the two of them together, right?

And I think, um, and we need so much more of it. And it's, it's, I think, uh, you know, a testament to, um, how important this is with the amount of involvement, the amount of, you know, uh, online summits around trauma, the amount of, of, uh, of, of conferences around working with plant medicine and just really coming together as a community and trying to heal, um, you know, together individually and together and, and.

And the planet as well. It's a big undertaking, but I, I think that, um, you know, it's, we're at a time where we need to be doing this and thankfully we have, um, some, uh, interventions in Medicinals and, um, that can really help us get across. Um, you know, at least the starting line, I had this person that I totally love is, uh, the patient that we were, I was talking to and he had a, a, a whole list of, of questions and I, in my mind, I, I kind of felt like I had, uh, nice, I had a real, there's about 18 things on there and I had kind of a very clear idea of like all the stuff that I wanted to say, and then I sat down to K because he was gonna, there was a lot of trauma that was related to all of that stuff.

And so then we were. We were, I was gonna tell him what my thought was, which was kind of functional medicine, peptides, integrative strategy, wellness, diet, lifestyle, all, all, all of this stuff. And, um, and, but he was gonna do ketamine and it was kind of a, an approach to reset the PTs d from the trauma. And so then I sat down, I, I remembered, This, uh, meditation from Qigong that we, we did, that was one of my favorites, uh, called the Crystal Palace.

And so the idea is that the, that the brain, one, one way of conceptualizing the brain is just that, it's like this crystal palace. And so the kind of talking through this meditation, which is kind of cool, and then connecting that he is like kind of a perfect, and he came here to, and that was like gonna influence him and reset, but that he was gonna reset everything and heal.

And then he goes, well, it looks like you went upstream from all my questions and those are all gonna be cured. Exactly. That's great insight. Insight from that, from that patient. And I think that again, it is, so much of this is like, if we're able to, to really treat the core right and address and nourish and feed the core, then, then like, you know, we recognize that we're exactly what we need to be.

Right. And then even, even then to know, and, and I think this goes, this is maybe my philosophy and I would say our philosophy in general is that that, um, that ketamine treatment was just like kind of the useful in this moment is kind of like a reset and to even just to help to realize it's gonna be okay and then you end up going, you still end up going back downstream and probably fixing and addressing those 18 questions.

And, and, and, and yet interestingly, some people really get a profound, a lot of benefit downstream. Some people need to go upstream and, and sometimes we need to meet in the middle. And, and I think it is, is the most exciting time to practice medicine in history. Yeah. From the, from the sense of everything that we have at our disposal to try to begin to put things together and support people in interesting and creative ways.

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Right. Agreed. Yeah. Super exciting. Okay. Yeah. Does anybody have any, um, uh, questions? Uh, you can unmute yourself if you, if anybody has any questions they wanna, uh, throw at either one of us. And then while we're waiting to see if there's a question, uh, you mentioned what the default mode network is, but just define what that is.

Yeah, I mean, so I think it's an ongoing definition, at least from, from my experience, but there are, are multiple centers in the brain that, that work together to kind of create waking gain consciousness. And part of that, that, you know, confluence of, of different centers is also where the concept of self or the ego often resides.

And so one of the, and again, there are a lot of theories around this, but one of the ideas around the efficacy of working, um, you know, with things like ketamine, but also M D M A or other classical, um, you know, the research around classical psychedelics is that by quieting that right, we give people the ability to take a step back from their conditioning, right?

Which, if you're treating, um, something, uh, that is. You know, affecting them negatively. Maybe they need that conditioning to, to at least break and have the ability to take a step back and say, oh, you know what? I'm going to, to recreate those patterns, or I'm gonna move forward and I'm gonna be able to leave that behind me.

Right. And so there is something that when, when they're in, when we see this with functional MRIs, when that default mode network, um, there is a quieting of it. It allows for I think, people to take a full breath and really examine, um, in a lot of ways, if that's the life they wanna live. Right. And again, It's incredibly important to be in the therapeutic context, right?

If this isn't typically that, that something people are doing alone, but by working with, um, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, provider of, of, um, different, different sorts, it's really given people the tools, um, you know, to get better, right? And there are some things where it seems like, you know, the durability, um, uh, is, is much greater, right?

There's some interventions and then other ones where it's like, you know, it's almost like feeding in cannabinoid system. You need to do, uh, you know, on a regular and, and continuous basis. Okay, great. I, I have question. Okay. Good. So, um, I used to practice, I still do functional medicine, but, you know, do labs, um, comprehensive lab analysis.

And then, you know, I would come up with a, a care plan and then that care plan would be nutraceuticals, herbs, homeopathy. Um, but just over the last couple years and my research on like, uh, lectins, uh, cytogenic, uh, glycosides, phyto toxins, Um, you know, Metagenics, apex, energetics, uh, orthomolecular, they keep calling me.

I'm, I'm not ordering their products anymore because I'm afraid of like initiating, uh, like autoimmune or GI issues, even though I'm trying to treat 'em for similar conditions. Um, I'm, I'm not really prescribing nutraceuticals like I, I I used to. Um, I'm, I've been starting using more of, uh, more peptide therapy.

It is, it is more expensive. It's a little bit harder to administer. Um, but I'm wondering, um, what you guys are doing if you're still prescribing nutraceuticals or are, do, are these peptides free of these? Um, cytotoxins also

cytotoxins in, in supplements, right? I, I find that I'm definitely prescribing or, you know, recommending, um, uh, fewer supplements. Um, when I'm using the peptides, I, I do feel like they're taking the place of, of, um, you know, a lot of the pills and powders. Um, you know what? That, I think that that deserves a, a better answer than I'm gonna give now, Keith, and I'm gonna think about that answer and we're gonna talk about it next time.

Um, I, I'm, I don't have a great answer for that. I'm not, I have not had a lot of trouble with the phyto in terms of my use supplements, and so I'm. I'm not going to pan it, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna think about it and I'm gonna come back with a, a, a deeper thought. Um, no, that's fine. I got, huh? That's fine.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, awesome. Now I got a question from Hila. Uh, can you combine Thymosin Alpha one and BPC in the same injection? Good question. In general, the answer is yes. Um, and so they, the, the question is, if you do stability testing, how long can you put these in and have them be stable? And so there are people who have made combinations of, of these where they'll put.

Four or five or six peptides in and, and have found them to be stable at least for a certain amount of time. And sometimes people say weeks, days to weeks to, uh, oh, I'm sorry, to, uh, to months. That being said, I generally don't combine them in the bottle, but I'll often combine them in a syringe. And the ones that I'll typically combine is, uh, when we're doing pain procedures, we'll combine thymosin alpha or beta four and BPC 1 57.

And the, the, the, uh, one of the traditional approaches is to use a two to one ratio of thymosin beta four. To BPC 1 57. And so then if you do that, uh, in that ratio, then you can take a syringe that has a combination of those. Um, and, and that is a, a great solution that I'll use both in hydration as well as for subcutaneous injections, as a pattern for for the treatment of pain.

Pain. Um, and then the next one I'm gonna give a shout out to, and I'm gonna kind of start an answer to this question, um, and then kind of talk about a couple things. And then we're gonna come back to this because I think it observes a little bit more of a, a, a, a question. But this question came in breast explan surgery with general anesthesia recommendations for pre and post-op supplements, et cetera, for silicone toxicity and whatever else is in the implant, even if not leaking, but could be releasing toxins anyway.

Uh, and recover from anesthesia, HBO t before and after. How many, uh, as a soft changer chamber, comparable to a hard, uh, chamber. Uh, and so then let's go into our thoughts on that one. Um, so it's interesting, you know, I had a, uh, it turns out I, I had like an hour long conversation about this one today too, which was super awesome.

And, uh, I, I had the conversation and, and then I asked McKayla, my medical assistant, I said, how do they do on a scale from zero to infinity? And she said Infinity, which was awesome. Um, one thing that I've noticed is, is that women who generally are almost totally healthy and perfect in from an immune perspective or immune mold or immune mold, Lyme fatigue, that, that whole cancellation of stuff, I've seen so many.

People that will have breast implants. And I was, we were talking to someone today who they were in for 25 or 30 years and didn't have any problems. I also have personally taken care of a large number of women that have had profound, uh, Profound, uh, immune and, and, and metabolic illness, uh, as a result of, uh, breast implants.

And Andrew Campbell, who we're gonna have on the podcast kind of talked about this, has done, uh, a fairly extensive amount of medical legal consulta consultations, uh, for women with breast implant on this. And, um, has, uh, a fairly strong opinion that often, uh, those implants, uh, can get, uh, infected with mold.

And then that can be a place where mold is living. And then those mycotoxins can then, uh, have, begin to systemically, uh, get into the, the, the body. And so then in terms of recommendation, I would say, uh, from what I would say 1.0. Getting on a kind of a coherent and thoughtful good approach to supporting yourself in terms of a detox and treatment sta strategy around the mold.

Um, a couple high level points on that is one being on some binders and so, uh, u using, uh, like a, a binder, like a charcoal binder, um, like an ultra binder in the morning. Uh, if you wanna do a little bit more than that, you can do the push catch program from Quicksilver you, where you take some bitters or their liver sauce and get the liver to squeeze and push any toxins in the bile out.

And then about 20 minutes later, take a binder. Um, uh, a lot of patients will do very well with modified citrus pectin, and when you do the modified citrus pectin, uh, o of if you're doing the binders as well, what I'll do is, uh, binders in the morning and modified citrus pectin kind of throughout the afternoon as lozenges had.

A lot of people have success with that. Uh, in terms of, uh, cholestyramine as kind of the next step up, um, uh, many people will do well, well with that, and you can, you can have that compounded to, to get going at lower dosing. Um, and in general, if I was preparing for a surgery like this, what I would try to do is I would try to get started on a really good binding program so that you're, you're working at that level while, uh, before so that you can be supporting and binding before, during, and after the surgery.

Not, not during, but you know, afterwards. And if you've been able to get on that strategy without a lot of side effects, I think that it's, it's, um, it's gonna be easy to onboard to it afterwards. And so I think that, that, that's, that's helpful. I almost universally found that patients who have very high levels of, uh, mycotoxins and mycotoxin illness seem to do well with the immune balancing peptides.

And so I'll have almost everyone with mycotoxin illness on thymosin, on thymus and alpha one and thymus and beta four. And if, um, and if somebody, if, if, if I was preparing for surgery, I would definitely support them with that, uh, both before and after the surgery. And I think, uh, I think that that makes sense.

Um, uh, We have, we have seen ozone therapy be very helpful for supporting, uh, patients with mold. I've had some people who were not releasing mold in their urine, but they had known high exposures. And then we started to do ozone and all of a sudden they started excreting it in the urine. And so it's like we somehow turned down the detox pathways.

Um, uh, obviously if I did that, I wouldn't do ozone right before, because you wanna definitely make sure that any effect of blood thinners, uh, goes away. Um, the, uh, Then I think the next step that I think is the most important step that there is, is choosing a surgeon who's wise and thoughtful and understands and knows everything about this so that they can support you in, uh, and, uh, in a, in a good way to support you through that experience.

Um, I think that the best s the best, most well-rounded and nicest plastic surgeon in the world on this topic is, um, uh, my friend Dr. Cherie Ong, and she has a practice in, um, In Arizona, in Scottsdale, and she's super well known and super great and, uh, has this as a big focus of her, of her practice. And, um, uh, she's very well versed with all of the integrative strategies that exist in terms of taking care of these patients and is, and knows about the mold, and knows and has very, uh, good strategies in terms of her surgical approach to get, uh, all of those, uh, those toxins out.

Um, in terms of, uh, And so then I, I, I super strongly recommend her and, uh, I'm not positive the name of her practice, but it's Dr. Shere, um, Ong, and I'll tell you how to spell, uh, uh, Shere. It's, it's, um, C H E R I space, o n g. And, uh, it's on, on g institute.com. So, uh, I give her my highest, uh, recommendation, which is great.

And she knows a lot of actually about peptides. She knows about ozone. So she's, she's well versed in these strategies, and I think I, I think you could put your trust in her. Um, uh, In terms of the HBO two, uh, HBO t I think that that's a useful strategy. There's a lot that can be said in that. Um, the, the soft chambers I think are, are nice and useful.

Uh, I don't think that they're as powerful as the hard chambers, but, uh, they're able to do it at lower pressure. And so I think it's something that's, uh, Supportive. I've definitely seen people have, uh, better experiences around surgery when they do a series of hyperbaric before and after and, and there's some experience in the, the cardiac surgery literature, uh, looking at that.

And I think that it's a, it's a, a provocative idea as a surgical, uh, prophylaxis. Uh, I, I did the, the hyperbaric certification, uh, my friend Scott Sure is, I think probably the, the number one hyperbaric. Um, physician in, in the, in the world that I know of. And, um, he sees people in consults for people and helps them kind of with strategies and we work together on cases.

Um, and so he's a, he's a great resource if you have around that. And, and interestingly, there's a lot of, that's a lot of new, uh, techniques and technology coming around, cycling through different pressures and, and, and, and, uh, what they're using with, um, hyperbaric oxygen, uh, to help support people both in the perioperative period, which is the anesthesia kind of period.

Um, but both before and then significantly after. Uh, it's interesting. I have, you know, I remember when I was young there would be people who had like a perfect general anesthetic, um, uh, and everything like went absolutely perfect. There's obviously a lot of times when it doesn't go perfect, um, but just total perfection and total stable blood pressures.

And it was rare, but then all of a sudden, you know, a couple people a year would come in and then they would have brain fog that they just couldn't recover from. Uh, interestingly, I now see a lot of those patients. And I remember when I was an anesthesiologist, I was like, well, this isn't normal cuz this never happened and your blood pressure was normal.

And I actually saw almost all of those cases because, uh, for a, uh, an organization cuz I was a medical director of surgery centers. And so I'd see all of those cases and I would review other people's records, and their records were perfect. And so now knowing what I know now and knowing what I have, I've seen people who had profound brain fog after anesthesia and I gave them n a d, uh, n d supplements, any divs, vitamin CIVs, glutathione, IVs, peptides.

I've, I've kind of used everything that I use and I've all I, and I've, I've had a lot of success with all of those strategies. And so I think a lot of the interventional integrative strategies that, that, uh, we offer. Can be very supportive to help people through that experience. What's interesting is, is that if you imagine a cell and there's a cell membrane, what Inhalational anesthetics do is they come in and then they get into the membrane and then they disrupt it.

And by disrupting it, then that membrane, that neuron can't do what it's supposed to do. And when it can't do what it's supposed to do, that causes you to lose consciousness. And so then you breathe in this an the inhalation anesthetic, and now it's here. And then once you turn that anesthetic off, Then what happens is eventually it will, um, just by, uh, by diffusion mechanics, it will, it will come off and then it will slowly go back into the bloodstream, go back into the lungs, be breathed out for all the anesthesia personnel and all the people standing in the room to breathe and inhale.

But then eventually it, it comes out, and then once that comes out and that neuron comes back on, then you're good. Um, interestingly, I think probably people with mold and ly and immune, uh, dysregulation and particularly the neurovascular and, and, uh, neurological immunity, sometimes you see that with leaky gut and food stuff, you know?

Mm-hmm. Um, there's gonna be an entire constellation of people that are at more risk based on what we know now from an integrative perspective for anesthesia now, The reality is nobody wants to have that conversation cuz everybody wants just like a quick, easy surgery and to not have to, because surgery is a revenue model in, in, in, for hospitals now and, and, uh, you know, uh, surgeons.

That being said, I think that, um, uh, there are a lot of opportunities to support people as they go through the perioperative experience and then to, to tweak and optimize them, uh, on the other side so that we get them through, uh, and, and restore them, potentially not back to where they were, but to a, a, a higher level of health.

So, uh, that being said, um, uh, I'm gonna call Dr. Ong and, uh, then maybe we'll do a follow up call and we'll talk about breast implant. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and Explan and, and kind of talk about that a little bit. And we'll have her on the podcast. And, uh, until then, let, let's everybody take ourselves off mute. Do you know about this, Harry?

Mm-hmm.

So, uh, I'm gonna let you do it cuz I want, I want to, so we always do some kind of super positive affirmation and so, uh, I'm, you can say, say anything you want. Sure. Um, you know, I, I think so much. This is about community, so, you know, together we move forward. Yeah. Together we rise up. Okay. About that. Perfect.

So, 1, 2, 3. Together we rise up. Rise up. Awesome. Great to see everybody. Okay, well, together we rise up. Thanks for being here and uh, I look forward to seeing you next week. You can find this Bio Reset podcast and others on iTunes, Spotify, and all other top podcast directories, as well as on bio reset podcast.com.

Make sure to subscribe and thanks for listening.

Dr. Harry McIlroy is an integrative physician in San Francisco who combines the best of Western and Eastern medicine to help people live well and feel better. Tune in as Dr. Cook & Dr. McIlroy discuss their experience and perspective on integrated Chinese medicine, traditional family medicine and the current incarnation of functional/integrated medicine. They share their experience treating patients with big physiological problems and the successes using integrative medicine.


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