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Part 1: Dr. Cook Q&A Series: Richard Rossi & JJ Virgin

March 19, 2020
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1h 20m
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Tune in to our first Q&A with Richard Rossi, creator and host of The daVinci50 &  celebrity nutrition expert JJ Virgin . Hear Dr. Cook’s reaction to yesterday’s announcement by President Trump around the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a potential coronavirus drug, among other discussion points.

 What we're doing is we're, we're podcasting, sort of it, it's ideally every day and trying to get information out there, get out there with things that you can do to protect yourself and your loved ones and your family.

You're listening to the Bio Reset Medical podcast with Dr. Matthew Cook.

The, the thing that, uh, that came out today is they, they, the, a trial that came out that looked at, uh, a dosing design and some strategies of treating, uh, COVID, uh, 19, uh, with, uh, hydroxychloroquine. And Hydroxychloroquine is the other name for it, is Plaquenil. And, uh, Plaquenil, uh, and, and Hydroxychloroquine is actually a derivative of Chloroquine and they're both anti-malarial drugs.

And, um, and so then that's, they, they've been around for a long time. Millions and millions and millions of people have used them. Uh, initially there was, uh, some, some thought, well, which one is better? Uh, the hydroxy or just the regular cor chloroquine. And it turns out, uh, it looks like the hydroxychloroquine is better for sars and it's also the one that has less side effects.


Of, uh, renal problems. And, um, I'm gonna do a follow up to this tomorrow and, uh, give you some more information on this. Uh, however, even though, uh, good job, even though it has, um, sorry, I'm doing two things at the same time. Shocking. Uh, e even though it, uh, it has some renal toxicity, I'm just reviewed a, a, a article that showed that in patients with rheumatoid arthritis who were put on hydroxychloroquine, the, the patients who got hydroxychloroquine ended up with less kidney problems.

So I'm gonna dig into this over the next 24 hours and give you information on it. The dosing, uh, that they came up with was to do a, a double. The dosing is, is 400 milligrams a day. And, uh, in, in the trial that I got, And so then what they're doing is they're doubling the dose on the first day. Now this is brand new.

We don't, we don't have as much information as we really should have in terms of being able to understand, uh, how beneficial it's gonna be a, uh, for prophylaxis and b for treatment. Um, but what's interesting is, is that what, the way that this hurts people is when it causes a cytokine storm. Do you guys un, do you guys understand that or do you want me to talk a little bit about that?

Sorry. Cytokine storm. Cy. Okay. Yeah, you should talk about it because it seems really scary. Um, sounds like there's lightning and thunder involved. Lightning and thunder. Well, we're gonna get the lightning and thunder when we get the ozone, so that will be, that'll be beneficial. Um, But so, uh, what happens is, is is that this virus comes in and attacks the epithelial cells, uh, which are the lining of your airway.

And it starts in the, the back of your throat and your nose. And then it can go down and start to attack the lining of the, basically your windpipes and your lungs. And when that happens in, it can cause a pneumonia, which would be a viral pneumonia. But then the other thing that it can do is it can cause an extreme reaction that's like an overreaction to, um, to the fact that there's a viral pneumonia.

And my analogy that I gave, that I came up with this weekend is like, imagine if there are a bunch of shoplifters, uh, in a grocery store. And then, um, we realized we needed to get those shoplifters. And so our solution was to call in a drone strike and take the grocery store out. And that's kinda like what happens when there's a cytokine storm.

And, and, and let me explain what I mean by that. When there's a cytokine storm, your immune cells start to release these chemical signals that call in the rest of your immune system to fight. And initially we start out by releasing some inflammatory ones and then we turn around, uh, once everybody shows up to the party and we then we turn, uh, we release anti-inflammatory ones.

And so life is a constant process of creating and starting inflammation, but then turning that inflammation off and then healing. What can happen sometimes is inflammation goes out of control. And when inflammation goes out of control, the one of the terms for that is called a cytokine storm. And when that happens, then we start to, uh, it starts to be get not just in your lungs, but it becomes systemic.

And so people can start to have low blood pressure and they can get a condition that's called sepsis. And then it turns out that this virus can then later on, start to attack the kidneys. And it can cause kidney failure and it can cause heart failure. And then it, and, and it, and then just the, the effect of the cytokine storm can be a, a problem.

So it turns out that hydroxychloroquine, which is sort of what we're talking about today, increases the pH of cells and in doing so, makes them a little bit resistant to the virus getting in in the first place, which is good. It also is immunomodulatory. And so there's a lot of things that we use that are immunomodulatory that can be quite helpful.

So, uh, uh, the classic thing is stem cells are modulate the immune system, so they kinda amp down the volume or the intensity on what's happening, which is why they're useful for autoimmune conditions. Uh, uh, this drug, Plaquenil has some immunomodulatory effects. Exosomes, which is, which are stem cell secretions, also have an immuno immunomodulatory effect.

And a lot of, uh, our favorite supplements, uh, may have some immunomodulatory effects. So, um, So, uh, Plaquenil, uh, may be helpful because of its immunomodulatory effects and if it can calm the immune system response down, then that may mean that people are less likely to progress on from pneumonia to sepsis and systemic, uh, problems with it.

Um, so then that's good. And then it also may block viral replication. So I think there's, there's, uh, it's quite provocative that, uh, it could be beneficial for these things. And in general the risk I think is quite low. Low. And, and I'm gonna di dive into the risk in more detail cause I only got a chance to write a few, a couple papers today just cause we've been running, uh, running all day.

But then given, given, go ahead. Richard, do you have a question? Oh, no, no. This is Tim. I had just two questions, Matt. So first of which, when you talk about sepsis and kidney failure and heart failure, like at what point, like what's the timeframe that this all happened? Oh, that's a great question. So the, um, So the, first of all, there's a pro roam when people are exposed and they don't have any symptoms.

And that may be like a month. So, so people may have been exposed and they may have no symptoms at all for, for some period of time, but more likely for like a week or two. Then once they start to have symptoms, the first symptoms that they're gonna have are probably gonna be upper respiratory in the nose and throat.

And so then imagine that is like day one. And so then what will happen after that is it can progress into chest tightness and uh, people can have, uh, pain in the chest and then they can develop a pneumonia and they can develop difficulty breathing. And so then that's gonna be in the, in the time course of three days to a week after the upper respiratory symptoms.

Then what will happen is the cytokine storm is gonna happen in one to two to three days after the pneumonia. And the cytokine storm then leads to the kidney problems and then the heart problems. And so then if the, if the upper respiratory stuff started on day one and then the chest started on day five or six, and then the, uh, pneumonia was on day eight, and then the kidney would be on day nine, and then the hardest day 11.

And I've seen different numbers on this from different places, but those are sort of ballpark, um, ballpark statements that give you a sense that you're not gonna have a sore nose and then get, um, heart, uh, heart failure. But what this, but what this does show is that if you start to have nasal symptoms and then upper respiratory symptoms, now we wanna do everything possible to, to calm the immune system down so that it doesn't go into overdrive.

Now then, given that, if you look at the data coming outta, um, Italy, the vast majority of people who had a problem had had three major medical problems. Let's, so let's say they had, uh, heart problems, lung problems, and kidney problems. And then the next group had two problems. So that'd be like heart problems and kidney problems.

And then the third group, uh, had at least one problem. So the vast majority of people who are having a lot of trouble with this have not a lot of metabolic reserve. And so then when a stress happens to them, It, it, it hits them super hard. Now, despite that, there are still young people, young healthy people who are progressing on, and I have a patient who, uh, is a friend of mine who, uh, uh, developed a very bad pneumonia and I did all of this remote, and it didn't make any sense to me in December.

And then shortly after that, he went into what sounded like a cytokine storm to me, but four or five days after that. And then eight days, eight days after the pneumonia, he went into kidney failure. And so, uh, and, and I was like, I, I'm a little embarrassed because I, I, I was talking to him through this whole thing and I was like, this is, this is crazy.

I've never seen somebody go into a, like this cytokine storm thing. And at that point, this is in December, and we didn't know about, we didn't know about, you know, the coronavirus. And so, uh, but then I woke up the other day and I was like, oh my God, he had Corona. That's what happened. And so then we're getting him tested and I'll have information about that.

And so know that people who are totally otherwise healthy can progress to this, but then also know that. Uh, I that, that the, this drug is beneficial. We're gonna go into some supplement strategies, strategies that are beneficial. We're gonna go into some ozone strategies. So there are a lot of things that we can do, and I think once we have, uh, a robust stack of things that we're doing, we're going to be able to really mitigate that risk.

Right. Hey, Matt. So, so one other question. Um, so that, and sorry, Richard, but really quickly, so the flax, I believe that's the name of it. What's the, what's the therapy for this? Like, I, is it, is it five days? Is it two weeks? Is it 30 days? Like, what are, you said, you mentioned you doubled the dose on the first day, which is very much like a Zak, and then you taper down right to the, to the standard dose.

What's the, what's the dosing on this? Yeah. Hold, so hold, hold on a second on this because I have a, Hey, while you're doing that, let me, um, let me give you the, what the University of Washington is saying. Oh, great. Um, so, you know, a lot of the cases are up there right now and I'm, I'm reading their internal documents on the algorithm for management.

Um, and what they're saying is 400 milligrams twice daily on day one, followed by 200 milligrams daily for four days. That's, that's their recommendation. The other thing that's interesting is I'm looking at the algorithm of management and basically if, if you have, if you've tested positively, For Covid 19, um, and you don't have any O two requirements and you don't have any risk factors, then they're saying symptomatic treatment only if you have any risk factors, and I can tell you what those are.

First line of defense hydroxychloroquine, if you have O two requirements, first line hydroxychloroquine, if you're on mechanical ventilation, first line hydroxychloroquine, you see the pattern there? Yes. And they're saying for how many days, Richard? Well, in with the University of Washington is currently doing is, uh, 400 for one day, sorry, 400 twice daily for one day, followed by 200 twice daily for four days.

And the other thing I wanted to, but what I wanted to ask you, Matt, is there's. There's some evidence coming out of the south of France that if you really want to supercharge this, you add a Zack in. Have you been reading anything about that? Yeah, so there's a, um, there's an article that I saw that there may be a risk of a cardiac arrhythmia if you combine a Zak with the hydroxychloroquine.

Um, and, and, and so then, and then let me say, I, I have a study that was done by Yao at all, and uh, that's obviously fresh off the press. And, uh, the title of it is in Vitro Antiviral Activity and Projection of Optimized Dosing Design of Hydroxychloroquine in the Treatment of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome.

Coronavirus too. So this is a a and so this is basically what they did is they did a, a trial in test tubes, and then they used that to come up with data to derive a dosing strategy in people. And, um, what what they said is to, to do, uh, 800 milligrams on day one, which is the same thing what that Richard said, and then to do 400 milligrams a day for, for, for days two through nine.

So they, this is, they're, they're discussing a 10 day strategy here. Um, and. What I would say, uh, is, and, and so what I would say Richard is, sorry. What I would say is, is that probably my best case scenario would be if someone was exposed and had symptoms would be to do, take the hi the hydroxychloroquine in a strategy of either a four day strategy or a 10 day strategy.

And I would probably do a 10 day strategy and then I would, and then I would combine that with the nutritional support and the strategy that, like what I'm gonna talk about with JJ and everything else that we have. And then I would consider thinking about adding in things like ozone and stuff like that.

And I think people are gonna do really well with that. Good luck trying to get ozone. No one, all the options are closed. Well, that's a problem, but I, I have a solution for you on that too. All right. Okay. Um, before we get to, to, before we get to that, let me just, um, cause you're gonna have a lot of folks listening to this podcast.

Um, would the university, can everybody mute themselves for not speaking, please? Uh, I'm sorry. Okay. Bryce drank all our wine and it's a crisis, so we're dealing with that shit now. You know, it's enough that we're now in self isolation. Our child's drinking all the wine. Uh, you know, Bryce, Bryce, Bryce, Bryce.

Really? However, he is cooking all the dinners. So I'm the pastie, I'm all,

um, yeah, so lovely. So with the, um, what I'm seeing here and what I'd love to get you to comment on Matt, is, um, this is again from the standard of care out of, uh, university of Washington Medical. They're saying that most toxicities are associated with long-term use. Um, there's some minor things like dizziness, headache, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, no big deal there.

They're also mentioning two things I don't understand, maybe you could explain to your listeners. One is LFT abnormalities and the second is QTC prolonging effect. And they recommend check QTC if on QTC prolonging drugs. Now what does that mean? So, um, the, the, so we'll start, do you want me to start with the LFTs and then we'll qtc?

Yeah, I just wanna make sure your listeners are, you know, fully informed, right. So, uh, they're almost all drugs we take will end up going through the liver and then when through the liver, oh,

drugs will go through the liver and when they go through the liver, they'll start to be metabolized. In the process of being metabolized, that can sometimes create a little bit of toxicity for the liver. And then if that, that creates toxicity in the liver, it can cause your liver function enzymes. For liver function tests to be elevated.

And so then for drugs that have any potential to affect the liver, often, and this is particularly if somebody is gonna be on a drug for six months or a year, then we will give them that drug and then a couple weeks later we'll check their liver function tests and then make sure that they're okay.

Because if you had some elevated liver function test, then that would be a problem If you were taking a drug that was toxic to your liver and then kept taking it, uh, I think that the incidence of this is quite low, but it is still a, it's, it's still a risk. But in terms of, uh, liver toxicity, I think the overall liver toxicity for plaque is low.

That being said, um, let's say I have two people, one person's totally healthy, no issues, no problems. Let's say that they had an exposure to Covid but didn't have any symptoms. Well, because Plaquenil is so safe, I would think that it would be reasonable for that person to take Plaquenil as a prophylaxis.

But then if I was gonna do prophylaxis, I probably wouldn't necessarily require that they do the loading dose, because I'm not trying to immediately get high levels. I'm just trying to get a little bit of, a little bit in there for them. And then I'm trying to have a prophylaxis effect. Now that's option.

So that's, that's one. If you told me there was somebody who had real bad liver disease and then they, and, and they also had an exposure, we might wait on that patient. And then see how they do, and then only treat them if they had symptoms. And then also, I don't, I don't specifically know what the incidence is.

Uh, can do me a favor look up, uh, incidents of, uh, increased LFTs and plaque. So we're gonna look that up right now. Um, now then the, the next thing is, is that a lot of drugs can affect the electrical activity of the heart. And, um, the, uh, the, when, when, and the, what happens is, is the heart creates an electrical, an electrical wave goes through the heart, and as that wave goes through the heart, it causes the heart to squeeze and, and eject blood out.

And so the blood gets pumped throughout your, your whole body. Uh, there's different, uh, each wave that goes through the heart has a different name. So, uh, one wave is called the P wave, and then the rest of them are called the qr s t, so it's P Q r S T. So it's a kind alphabetical. And so then there are some drugs that can cause a delay or a lengthening in how long it takes the electrical activity to get through the heart.

And so what happens is that delay can happen anywhere between p QRS and T, but some drugs can affect what is called the qt. And so it's, that's the amount of time it takes to get from q t, and that's the time when the heart is actually squeezing. So, um, and so then you, you say, well, when is that relevant?

I would say 99% of the people that we know don't have any symptoms with that. But what will happen is, is that there are certain patients, particularly heart patients and then um, uh, particularly heart patients that may have other electrical problems. And so there are a lot of cardiac patients who have problems in terms of how electricity flows through their heart.

And those patients, if they're given a drug that delays how electricity moves through the heart, may be more susceptible to problems. And so then once again, now what we say is, oh, okay, I've got this person who's a cardiac patient who's probably one of the people who's at higher risk of a problem with covid.

But I also know that they might have. More of a side effect from one of the drug that treats it. And so then we're gonna have to make a judgment call around would it be a good idea for that patient to take this drug versus, uh, would it not? And, and that's a judgment call based on the, the incidents of it.

Now, if you gave me, uh, Richard a hundred drugs, there might be 20 or 30 or 40 of them that that could have an effect on qt It's like when you're, it's, it's a relatively common, uh, side effect. But the, the side effect is relatively uncommon and the percentage of people that have symptoms of it is probably relatively uncommon.

And this is a, a relatively, like millions of people have taken this. And so then if I was at home in quarantine, uh, on the sofa, Preparing for my virtual, uh, rave with, uh, JJ and I had symptoms, then I would de definitely. Do you have, do you have your old Elvis costume? Because that's what we want you to be in.

I just wanna know, did it make it home? Uh, it, it didn't make it to my new house, jj. Oh, I'm so sad. I don't know if we can invite you. Well, you, you, you don't know because maybe I'm gonna have a better outfit. All right, well let's hope you've got a couple days. I've got a couple days, days work on this except not delivering Prime right now, so I dunno what you do.

Ok. Well, before, so before you move on, oh, lemme, lemme answer this question. Lemme keep going for a second, Richard. So therefore, if I was on the sofa and I had symptoms, I would feel like the risk of proceeding. Uh, and, and taking this drug is pretty darn low. And so I think, I would think it's a reasonable thing to do.

I think that we're probably gonna find that it's probably a good thing to do for, for prophylaxis if you've had exposure. And so then I, like I was talking to a bunch of doctors in Canada today, and the Canadian Health Service, they're in ration state. And so, because a lot of patients need it just for autoimmune disease and other conditions, they're only giving it to people with active symptoms in a positive test.

I think that they're, my best guess is that if there's been any exposure, uh, even without a positive test, I think it's a reasonable thing to do for prophylaxis. But we're gonna, um, we're gonna figure that out. So for someone who's in magnificent shape, like, um, Tim, Richard Rossie,

you know, a Greek god, like Tim for example. Richard Rossi

when like, say he wasn't exposed, but then he started feeling a little bit iffy and then all of a sudden he started coughing. So, and then all of a sudden his wife said, get the fuck outta the house. Go over there. Wow, Tim. Not, not that that would ever happen. Never, never happened. Never. Lemme read this to, lemme read this to you, Richard.

Um, mm-hmm. So, so this is a review article on Hepatotoxicity. So hydroxychloroquine has not been associated with significant serum enzyme elevations. During therapy for rheumatological diseases. So these are unhealthy patients. Furthermore, clinical apparent liver injury from hydroxychloroquine is rare. A single case series two cases of liver failure attributed to hydroxychloroquine was published 20 years ago.

But case reports of clinically apparent liver injury have not appeared subsequently. So that means there's been millions of people that have taken this drug and there have been a couple there. There may have been a couple people that had failure, liver failure, but those were almost all with chronic use.

So that begins to make me feel like the, the risk from a liver perspective is very low. And so then if I have Greek. Um, uh, then what I would say is I would, if he, if he felt iffy, then I would take it. And so the minute you feel iffy, you do it. So it's better to start it sooner rather than later. Yes.

Because here's the thing, if you, and now this is, this is my guess based on my just clinical experience, ok? If you follow me, and I'm not gonna be exactly right, but I'm not gonna be super wrong, what happens is this goes into your nose and your upper airway and it affects the lining there. And then a few days later it goes and affects the lining in your lungs and then it kinda causes inflammation and then it gets into your bloodstream and then it affects the in your kidney.

And then after that, it gets out of there and it goes and affects the lining in your heart. So therefore if you were to feel iffy and then you started to take something that blocks the replication, makes the cells that are getting infected, somewhat resistant and may actually have a negative effect on the virus, now I'm feeling pretty darn good that I'm doing, doing a, doing something therapeutic and I'm then potentially gonna block the pulmonary thing from ever happening.

Yeah. Cause what, from everything I've heard, like it's really stopping it as quickly as possible before it starts to get down. So it gets in your, like before it gets into your crea and then gets into your lungs, right? Yes. Because if we stopped that, then you basically had a little, nothing is gonna happen bad from the fact that it was in your nose.

It's just when it gets into your lungs, that's when it can get into the bloodstream and that's when the, the horses are outta the barn. All right? Yeah. Hey Matt, make sure in the podcast you mentioned him and the Greek God he might wanna say. Right. Thank you. Thank you, Richard, for that. Well, no, cause you know, I was thinking Oregon sounds like a name of a Greek God too, you know?

Well, hello. Yeah, there you go. He said, well, that's awesome, man. And I gotta say, um, you know, I took, uh, uh, hydroxychloroquine when I went to visit Ghana, you know, it's like, no big deal. So, yeah, but here's the issue, Richard. Here's the, here's the big issue. So here's what's happening right now. If you look at this, and here's the problem is people are told, Hey, if you've got symptoms, stay home.

And if they start to get really bad, call your, so if you start to feel bad, call your doctor. But if they start to get really bad, you go to the hospital. So they're actually doing the exact opposite of what you just said to do, because by that time, they'd be in your lungs. And by that time, you're, you're really screwed, right?

Right. And, and so now this is, this is what you're saying and what's interesting, I always say, JJ, that, um, and by the way, I've gotta tell you something about you. Cause I talk about you all the time in my clinic. Um, but, uh, uh, that sounds a little creepy. I say No, it's positive. Yeah. I'm my, I'm waiting to hear what you're talking about.

So what I say is, functional medicine makes sense. It should make common sense and it would make sense that if there's a pandemic going around and there was something that could. Basically shut down the, the, the multiplication of the virus and the ability to get in through the body. It would make a lot of sense to try to start that as soon as there were any symptoms.

Right? Yeah. Now then, so then that's, that's number one. Then number two is, should you then try to take something like this? If you were exposed to someone who was positive, and so then to me, because this is such a low risk drug, I would say yes. Would I recommend that take, would, would the dosing be different than if you were, if you knew you were really like you, someone had it, you were there with them, you hugged them, you like shook hands, whatever, would you, is the prophylactic dose different than if you started to have symptoms?

I would, I wouldn't do the double dose on the first day. I would just take the pro profile. I, I would take a prophylactic test. And how many days, how many days would you do it if you just were doing it prophylactically? So then I would do it. So, so the, the guidelines from the University of Washington talked about four days.

This article that I have from Yao at all talked about a 10 day strategy. So I would, and so then, so then I just have to use my judgment based on two, two case reports. However, we know that, uh, people can be asymptomatic for somewhere between two to three or four weeks. And so then one conversation would be to prophylax for 10 days.

And then the idea would be that you did so much prophylaxis during that 10 days that there's no virus left and you could come off before you had symptoms. And so then, uh, my best guess is option A is to do 10 days and then come off, and then if you had symptoms go back on. Option B would be to say, okay, let's prophylax for maybe let's say two weeks or three weeks.

And then if you had no symptoms, you've probably, by the odds, made it through. And if you don't have any symptoms, you could consider yourself free uhhuh. And I don't think there's a right answer or wrong answer and people disagree with me. If they had good science and knew more about this, I'd be like, this is, we're gonna try to, we're gonna try to have a conversation like this every day and someone may come in tomorrow and say, I've got a great reason why it should only be four days.

Hey Matt. Um, so I was at CVS today as you know, um, dealing with challenges with getting this prescription filled. They're the one pharmacy that it was sent to, only filled two of them. I had to transfer the, a prescription to another pharmacy and they were running out. So, knowing that this medication has been around for quite some time, and it has been taken by millions of people, how quickly can the pharmaceutical companies, and I'm assuming this is, uh, generic, how quickly can they scale the production of this medication up to be able to meet the millions upon millions of people who, you know, would need it for these situations?

So, The, the good news is, is that because they've done, I think they're gonna be able to scale this up super fast. And so I predict in a couple weeks we're gonna have no problems. Now, fortunately, I patted your prescription a little bit so that with two prescriptions, if anything happened, you'd be able to have enough to cover the whole family down there.

And I did that intentionally. Um, uh, and I did that also without realizing I did. It took, by the time I read, read through all the, the information. It, it appears to me that if, if you were gonna do it for prophylaxis based on exposure, I think that the doing it for somewhere between. Four and, and 15 days is pretty reasonable.

And so there, therefore you're gonna be covered. And I wouldn't really stress about it too much. Um, I know that, uh, uh, I talked to somebody who, uh, there's a compounding pharmacy that I know that has like a couple kilos of it. And so they're charging, they're charging more than you paid at cvs, but so then know that, uh, so that we're, we have a lot of different ways to get this.

And, and then people who have prescriptions, if there is someone who's sick, you know, we may need to, and I've never said may need sharing their prescriptions.

We don't hoard anything. No, not at all. Not one. We hoarded a lot of wine. Wine. Well, and some supplements. And some you just give and give and give. We're givers. We have a lot of, I'm, what I'm saying is I'm the rea, I actually intentionally wrote your prescription a little extra just in case you would need to give it to friends.

Cause I kinda participated. But, so, so as you know, they, they, they, they took it down to 60, uh, per bottle because they were running. Yeah, it was, it was, it was getting run by the way, when I was in the pharmacy getting it filled, um, they were getting calls to get it filled, so it's already out. So it really wasn't more of a question about us here.

And thank you again for that prescription. It was more about, you know, the masses that are gonna wanna get their hands on this as this information starts to get out via your podcast and through other media outlets, you know, given. The current supply. I mean, am I right Matt? When it, if this, I mean the President Trump was talking about this from the podium today.

If this actually becomes a standard of care, holy mackerel, there's gonna have to be an enormous production, wouldn't you say? Yeah, but so then we're talking about, uh, if you said, uh, if you said no loading dose, and you said 10 days, we're talking about 20 pills a person. And so then I don't think it's gonna be that hard for them to ramp this up.

And the question is, is, and the fact that they mentioned it just, uh, gives me an idea that they probably have somebody that can ramp this up. Like when the, so this, they, they'll put this through a pill press when they make this. And so then I predict that they're gonna be able to make. They might be able to make, you know, a million pills and so, so, but, but, but the question is who owns the raw materials on this one, right?

Is this China? I have no idea. Like, yeah, that's a great question. Like, are we gonna run out of the raw? I know that's the big thing right now with some of the supplements we need is the raw situation, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, I don't, I don't know the answer to that, but that's a good question.


All right, well talk about ozone. Matt. What, what's the, yeah, what do we do? What about the alternative ozone doc? Just shut their office. Yeah, I know. So it's, it's kind chaos because all of the nurses are kind refusing to work in like every practice because of sort of fear. Uh, I'm treating my staff for free, and yet, Still, a lot of 'em don't wanna come to work.

Um, and so, uh, do, do you guys have an ozone generator at home? No. Okay. So there's a, there's a company called Ozone and the, the name of the company is Longevity and they have by far, the best machine for, for this genre of, um, of, uh, of treatment. And so then what, you can order one of those, and then I'm going to introduce you guys to the CEO of the company at about 10 minutes.

What kinda ozone generator do you want? There's many ozone generators here, like, which one do you want? So there's, there's three machines that they have, and I think there's a quantum one, quantum three, and quantum five. Quantum Five was designed for position offices and has a little bit more bells and whistles.

Quantum one was designed as kind of an entry level for, um, the home. And Quantum three is kind of in between. And so for you guys, what I would do is get the Quantum five, and there's gonna be a variety of reasons I'll tell you about. They, they, what you're gonna do is you're gonna order the ozone generator and then I am going to give you a prescription or medical oxygen for the ozone.

And then you're gonna call around and find out where people, uh, get, uh, uh, medical oxygen in your town. And then you're gonna be able to go, uh, and then when they, when they, um, ship you your ozone generator, they're gonna ship you a tank and then you're gonna literally bring your tank over to the, the oxygen store and they'll fill it up for you.

So that, that's gonna be great. Now these guys live in Florida, so is this gonna be a ton of oxygen? So Matt, would you do this? Like we were gonna go to the ozone like place to have to do 10 pass ozone. Could you do it at home or do you need to still go to a dock for that? So I'm gonna walk you through this whole thing.

You need to do a doc to do the 10 pass. Um, uh, you need to go see a doc, the 10 pass. But I'm gonna walk you through all of the ways that you can do ozone. Yeah. And, and so then, uh, and then you're gonna laugh. Um, you're gonna laugh your asses off, but since I've been talking to you, I did nine passes. Ozone in this time.

We've been doing this. That's what you've nine passes. That's what I've been doing. But I decided online and you've been doing, you've been doing ozone and I've been cleaning dishes, Matt. Yeah. So I said, now just go grab the IV bag and hook it up. So, um, so remember I, we were talking about thunder and lightning.

At the beginning of the call. So what happens is, is when electricity gets exposed to ozone oh two can turn into oh three. It turns out that there's a whole bunch of different reactive oxygen species. So there's oh 2, 0 3, 0 5, 0 7. So there's, but the most common and the most predominant one is, is oh three.

And so what happens is, is you hook up a oxygen tank to, um, your ozone generator, and then the, um, it, you send oxygen over an an electrical discharge and then that electrical discharge. Causes the creation of these other oxygen species, primarily oh three. And then, uh, it comes outta the machine as, as, as, quote unquote people call it ozone, but it's, it's actually not pure ozone.

In fact, it's mostly oxygen with a little tiny bit of ozone. And so then it's, it's really an two slash oh three mixture. And the, the, we talk about the concentration of ozone as, uh, gamma. So the ki if, if, if it's ama, that means it's 10 micrograms of ozone, oh three per milliliter. If it's ama. Then it's um, a hundred micrograms of oh three per milliliter.

Now, just for ballpark understanding, a hundred is very high, one is very low. Most treatments that we do per patients, we do somewhere between five and 70, depending on what we're doing. So if you have a machine at your house, then you can, uh, run oxygen through the machine and then out comes this mixture of oxygen and ozone, the um, and then, and then, then, then we can do something with that.

So then let's talk about things that you could do. One thing that you could do is you could hook a bag up ozone generator. And then fill it up with this mixture, and then you could then put a catheter into your rectum. You were doing like, hold on, hold on. Like you were doing enema. Okay. We try.

He's our, he's our petsy. All right. Bryce is our Guinea pig. Thanks Fred. Ew, gross. So then, uh, so then if you put a catheter into the rectum and then you squeeze that gas, that gas mixture of oxygen and ozone in, now you have some ozone gas in your colon. Yeah. The interesting thing is a whole bunch of that write you down with that.

He likes that idea. So then a whole bunch of that gas you'll will be just farted out. But then, right. A significant percentage of it will be absorbed across the lining of your colon mucosa, just like water and stuff like that, and get into your bloodstream. And so a rectal ozone treatment is actually one very good way to get a systemic dose of ozone into the body.

So then that's a great thing that people can do at home, uh, and is, is, is very safe to do. The one thing is, is that ozone is antiviral, antibacterial, anti parasite antifungal, so kills all the bad things. Why does it do that? It does that because it does oxidation reduction reactions and, um, it has an oxid.

Bacteria and viruses are, are tiny and they don't have a lot of reducing capacity. And so as a result, if you, if they get exposed to something that oxidizes them, then that typically kills them. And so that's why ozone can be a valuable tool when taking care of people with viral problems. And so I, I have 10 years of experience with taking people, taking care of people with viral, uh, problems.

Think herpes, think hepatitis, think hiv. Uh, in general, there's no group. Uh, think, think cmv, uh, think Epstein bar virus. I've never seen a, a, a patient with a viral infection that didn't, uh, have a positive experience. Uh, taking ozone and ozone tends to be very, very safe. Now, the caveat that I have, And, uh, this is a gimme for you, jj.

The caveat that I have is that because it is, because it can have an antibacterial effect, it can have a negative effect on some of the bacteria in your colon. And, and so as a result, anytime I have anyone doing rectal ozone, then I have them double down on probiotics so that we're helping to keep a super healthy population, uh, of, of, in their microbiome.

That make sense? Okay. Yep. Do you, do you wanna, JJ I'll get to you. What would you, uh, what's your number one probiotic and why? Um, so I was, I'm actually in a process of shifting right now to a score based probiotic. I was using more of a kind of multiple probiotic with some, with a probiotic in it, but I'm gonna shift over to the score and test it out.

I actually think we need to rotate them, so I don't have a single favorite. I think we need to use, uh, use, use variety. But I'm gonna try the spore and see if, like, if I had to just pick one, if that would be the one that I would pick. Is it sort of like you look at the spore, you look at one that's kind of a, a blend and then you look at sacrifices, ARDI as as three different, three different separate ones.

And that's how I've looked at it. And if I had to pick one, I was looking at more of the blend, but now I'm thinking that the score might be a better crossover, but we'll see. Okay, good. Not sure was taking, uh, just regular probiotics and then for. Uh, the last eight months I switched over to bo based probiotics, and then now I'm just cycling again just for a little diversity.

That's like your answer. Yeah. That I think you need to cycle, you know, which is just like we do with our diet. So basically we're trying to replace what our diet used to be a thousand years ago where we would've gotten dirt and et cetera, and we would've gotten all the probiotics from our food and our dirt and everything else.

So we would've cycled based on seasons, right? So that's good. Um, so anyways, so then you can do rectal low zone. Now remember, a lot of people are a little bit worried about ozone because of toxicity. And the reason that you've heard that is, is because if people are exposed to a high concentration of ozone, which means a high ability to do oxidation, and then they breathe it into their lungs, then the lungs don't have much.

Reduction potential because the lungs are very fragile. We have these alveoli where gas exchange happens, and so it's a very fragile environment, so the lungs cannot tolerate, uh, much ozone, whereas the blood has an enormous buffering capacity and the colon has an enormous buffering capacity. So we can tolerate a lot of ozone, um, if it was mixed in a safe way with blood, and we could tolerate a lot of ozone if it was, uh, put into the colon, but we have to be careful in terms of the lungs.

That being said, if you take a very, if you take a very small amount of ozone, so, uh, what happens is if you fill up a 10 cc syringe with six gamma ozone, six to eight, so that's very, a very low concentration of ozone. Then I have someone take a very big breath. Hold their breath and then put a little bit of that ozone in each nostril.

And then they hold their breath for about as long as they can, and then they breathe out through their nose and then they plug their nose and breathe in through their mouth and then let go and they breathe out through their nose. If you do that, that's a way to put some ozone into the nose without, um, without much getting into your lungs.

And so there are, there are a lot of people, and there are a lot of people who've, who've had mold and intoxications and biofilms in their noses and all kinds of things that when they do that strategy, it can be very helpful at helping in treating nasal infections. So then, given that if you had an ozone generator and you could make a syringe of ozone and then you could put a little bit of that in your nose.

If you happen to be having some nasal symptoms, that might be a good thing that doesn't have any systemic effect on the virus systemically, I mean, like in your whole body. Cause it's just affecting topically in the nose. But that's, that's valuable. Now then the next thing that you can do is that you, you can run ozone continuously through.

They have a, um, they have this little device where you can run it through a, uh, chamber that has olive oil and when you bubble it through the, uh, the mixture of the olive oil plus the ozone makes no longer toxic to the lungs. And then you can breathe that mixture into the nose. And there's been a lot of people with chronic nasal things that, that had a benefit from that.

And there, there could hypothetically be a benefit of breathing that type of, um, ozone and that way through the nose. Particularly if somebody had actual nasal symptoms. So I don't think that if somebody had no symptoms, I would recommend that they do that. But that, that's another thing that you can do.

That's, so we've got rectal ozone, we've got the nasal ozone. Uh, there are companies that make ozone olive oil and they make those on olive oil the same way that you would make that, you would, they bubble it through the olive oil just like if you were doing a nasal treatment. And so there are some people who are actually putting some of that ozonated olive oil into the nostril it as a prophylaxis.

Now I'm not saying that that would be effective, but it is interesting. And I can tell you that over the years I've had a lot of patients who used ozonated olive oil for a variety of topical problems and also for gastrointestinal problems. They just drank it. And it, it, it can be beneficial, so that's interesting.

Mm-hmm. The next one that I think you'll, you'll find interesting is that if you have an ozone generator, I said that you could bubble ozone through olive oil. Well, you can also bubble ozone through distilled or reverse osmosis water. If you do that, that water begins to absorb a bunch of the ozone and then you can drink that.

And so then when you drink that, some of that will get absorbed systemically. And so we've been making ozonated water every day and drinking that as part of our prophylactic strategy. That's very safe. It's not gonna affect your microbiome because. None of that ozonated water is gonna make it all the way to the colon when you drink it.

It's almost all gonna get absorbed in the small intestine. Now, additionally, the small intestine is supposed to be sterile. There's not supposed to be any bacteria in there. If it is, then that's called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. But ozonated water is one strategy that we've used for a lot of our patients that have, um, that have uh, uh, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or parasites in the small intestine.

So, uh, I think that's a, a safe and, and reasonable thing to do. Then to answer your question, jj, uh, the third, the last thing that you can do, I'll probably think of some more that I forgot about, but the last thing that you can do is machine that comes from Germany and pulls blood out and then mixes.

Ozone with the blood and then puts it back in. If you did that one time, it's called a one pass. If you did it 10 times, it's called a 10 pass. Each time it mixes about two 50 cc of blood with ozone. And so then imagine if you did it 10 times, you would be ozonating about 200 and about 2,500 ccs of your blood, which would be half of your blood volume.

Now there we, we take care of a lot of people with complex illness and Lyme disease and stuff like that, and I can tell you that ozones probably the most revolutionary thing in, in terms of taking care of those patients. A very large percentage of patients that have chronic infections now, Lyme, mold, et cetera, all chronic.

My son chronic is Lyme. Yeah, so then very common to have chronic viral situations. And so often they'll have reactivation of Epstein Barr or there's a couple different herpes viruses that are not, not the ones that you've heard about, but, and Epstein Barr and these, these different ones. Uh, and, and generally what happens is because the immune system is stressed for one reason or another and becomes a little dysfunctional, these bugs start to get ahold of us, and then it's just difficult for us to kind of fight 'em off.

So, so the ozone blood strategies is something that would be done where a doctor puts an IV in and then pulls the blood out. There is another strategy that I, I don't recommend at all, and I generally talk a lot against, but is, and that's where, uh, uh, someone injects ozone gas directly into the bloodstream.

Very, very slowly. The theory that these doctors have is that because you inject it super slowly, it gets dissolved into the blood and it has a similar effect. The downside of that is that it tends to scar veins because veins are sensitive to oxidation reduction reactions. And so then I have a lot of people who came to see me whose veins are all scarred up because they had this therapy.

Now it's, the interesting thing is I know some people who I like quite a bit, who went to Sierra Leone to the Ebola outbreak and treated a bunch of people and saved their lives by doing this strategy. And so we know that there's a, uh, a case report series of people who were treated with ozone therapies in a, uh, extremely dangerous viral outbreak and, and, and seemed to do much better than a cohort.

That didn't receive treatment. And they also seemed to do better over the long term than people who didn't receive treatment. And some of the people who didn't receive treatment, uh, who were infected at the same time in the same place died and no one who got treatment died. So that, uh, that and sort of my clinical experience taking care of a lot of people with viral situations makes me feel like ozone is probably one of the best things you can do for yourself.

And so then my recommendation is, is that you call longevity. You order the package. When you order a package, you're gonna wanna buy these bags so that you can fill them up. You can buy one, buy catheters and gloves, and then you're gonna be able to do rectal ozone treatments for yourself. So that's a systemic dose.

And then you've got all of these other strategies and ozone water. Ozone. I've never, I don't know of any drugs that are contraindicated along with ozone. So then, given that, I think it's fairly reasonable to think that you could take, Plaquenil and I, I have taken care of, and every ozone doctor in the country has taken care of a lot of patients who are on multiple antibiotics and do ozone at the same time.

So I think the concept of combining Plaquenil hydroxychloroquine that this drug that may have some benefit in terms of both prophylaxis and treatment of the coronavirus, the idea of combining that with some ozone strategies, I think makes a of sense to me. Would my strategy be. If there was exposure, I would for sure start drinking ozone water.

I would, and then I would consider doing recco ozone, but then I would weigh the risks and benefits of what's going on with that person's microbiome. I would develop a strategy that would be aligned with J J's idea of, uh, uh, replacing anything that was killed, doing probiotics, and then rotating that through.

And then I'll just say, as a caveat, I've actually had a lot of people that had a fairly dysfunctional colon, and then I started to give them rectal ozone, but I started to double down on probiotics and cycling through, and it's almost like the, the ozone started to kill off some of the bad actors, and we replaced it with good actors.

And so a lot of those people that I've, I've talked to over the years will tell me that their GI situation is way better than it was before. So I, I think that's, I, that's provocative and, and, and interesting. And then, you know, the, this virus can affect, um, anywhere in the epithelium. And so then, uh, you can, when you get one of these ozone generators, another thing that you can do is it comes with a stethoscope and it can actually blow a little bit of ozone through the stethoscope and it can blow it towards your membrane.

And so then that's another, another strategy, uh, that, that would be potentially, potentially useful. On, on the o on front. Wow, that's fascinating. Um, now JJ just went on to another call, so it's just you and me, and I wanted to ask you about, um, nebulizing, uh, colloidal silver, um, because it's, uh, anto anti, micro Anto, excuse me, anti microbiome directly to the lungs.

Do you think that's something that makes sense? So, uh, so JJ was telling me about this and I think, so it's a, it's very provocative and so when we were, when we are faced with something that is, uh, and some form of infection that's affecting us, one strategy is to try to make our body more healthy. So that's resistant.

And then another strategy is to try to introduce something that would kill that, kill that virus. So ozone would be considered something that would kill the virus and make it less likely to be able to affect us. Uh, the, the drug plaque might be something that would, would have an antimicrobial effect.

Silver is one of the famous things that have been used over the years to have an antimicrobial effect. And so you, have you ever heard that expression? Uh uh, Richard, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Yes. Yeah. So the idea was that the royalty always, uh, ate, uh, with silver, uh, silverware. And the concept was if they were eating and drinking off of plates that were made of silver, then they would get this very low level dose.

Of silver that has this antimicrobial effect and that would basically go against the, the bad humors that you were exposed to. Fascinating. Yeah, it's really interesting. It's really interesting. And so that's like an antecedent two sort of the modern therapies. Now there's a fairly broad and robust experience of using silver in integrative medicine.

Now what happened unfortunately is, is that about a week or two ago, some silver, some companies that were promoting silver started to promote the idea that silver would be a cure for the coronavirus because we do know that silver has antimicrobial benefits now the problem. And so they, those, those companies all got warning letters from the f d and the ftc.

Now the, the issue is, is that logically I think that it does make sense to, to, to have silver as a, as a modality. And, um, but the question is, is it effective? And I, I don't think that any studies have been done. Um, I, I have socialized this with a bunch of my friends, uh, over, uh, the last eight hours since we talked this morning.

And I think that designs for health, uh, has the best silver product for Nebulizing that exists on the market. So I think it's a very, uh, if you were gonna use a product, I would use that. I've also talked to, uh, a whole bunch of doctors that have used it and patients, and nobody's had any side effects from it.

So then therefore, I'm beginning to feel that there's, it's from, from a, from a very cursory, just polling people that it's safe and reasonable to do, and we then we know that it has this antimicrobial effect. I'm weighing that against the, the fact that we know that with, and I mentioned this to you this morning, we know that when you're nebulizing that uh, there is some concern in emergency departments that nebulizing.

Can increase particulate and then that increased particulate from the nebulizing can, uh, can lead to increased spread to other people. Therefore, my suggestion is if you are going to be doing nebulizing treatment, I recommend, because almost everybody who's gonna be doing this is gonna be doing it at home.

And so I recommend that people do it outside and away from other people. And so then I think, I think that, I think that doing it is gonna be a reasonable strategy. I think they should, people should do it outside. They should do it away from other people. Um, and then I'm going to have some, uh, further, uh, information about this and further thoughts about it tomorrow because they may be talking to more people.

And so we'll update people on it, but I think that it's a, a good and reasonable strategy. And then it goes along with this, this idea that, oh, okay, let's say like we were talking about with jj, let's say that there was a, a person that had it in their nose, and now our job is to block that from getting to the lungs and to block that, uh, that when it gets to the lungs to having an out of control effect.

Because if that happens, then the cat's outta the bag, the horses outta the barn, and then that's when the big problems can happen. So then, uh, I think that it might be extremely provocative to start to do some, uh, nebulizing. At home after people got symptoms and to, to have that in a stack with, uh, the hydroxychloroquine.

So now we're using a number of different modalities that are designed to do the same thing. Does that make sense? Yeah, it absolutely does make sense. Um, I wanted to also ask you, in this controlled study, uh, in France, uh, a hundred percent of the patients that received a combination of the H C Q and are azithromycin tested negative and were viral, biologically cured within six days.

But you had talked about, uh, potential issues in combining those two treatments. Where do you stand on that right now on combining the HC and Azithromycin? So the, I don't have enough information. The azithromycin is an antibiotic, and so, and, and so I have a question and, and, and the general belief system of Western medicine is that if somebody has a viral infection, they don't normally recommend adding azithromycin, which is an, an antibacterial antimicrobial because we, we, we generally have not thought of azithromycin as being, having antiviral effects.

Now, it may be that, Was that, uh, some of these patients were getting a super infection where they had a virus and then on top of the virus they got a bacterial infection. And so I, I have to look that up and I'll have an answer for you on that tomorrow. But because, and, and, and, and then the next thing is, is that my stance is I'm, I'm trying to do, to do combinations of integrative approaches plus classic western medicine things.

So then to me, when I start to think about having ozone and I start to think about supplements, and I start to think about some of the herbal approach things that we have, and then to start to add that to hydroxychloroquine, I think that I'm gonna have a fairly robust approach. And so then based upon that, that, and then based upon the fact that in.

Almost no time. I'm hearing about a side effect of an arrhythmia. Now I'm beginning to say I'm nerv. That makes me nervous that, that, that that combination exists. And so I'd probably wait and try to get a couple more days of knowledge before I took the combination. Also, knowing Richard, that the, we have to take each person's history into account when we do this because if you think about it, the, the incidents of of, of these major complications is still relatively low, and so we don't wanna overreact and, and create a worse situation by combining too many things too.

Yeah. Right. And, and that could, uh, and I think like the, the key point you just made is you got to consider each person's medical history, uh, in making a final determination. You have like a Greek God, like Tim, and you compare it with someone who has several different serious problems, and you may come up with two completely different, uh, strategies.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, this has been amazing. I, I feel like, I feel like you, you're just, you're so deep into this, it's just incredible. Um, I wanna check in with you every day. Are you gonna keep posting new podcasts every day? We're gonna do new podcast, and I love talking to you. If you want, I'll talk to you every day and Fantastic.

We'll, we'll, we'll keep this conversation going. We'll, we'll dive into this. I'm just gonna, maybe just throw this out as a teaser for people. There's a lot that can be done with supplements to modify how the system reacts, and so there's ways to system and remember ine, there's. The, the good cops and then the bad cops.

And so we're able to kinda modulate how that whole thing works with supplements, which is, is great. Turns out that there's also supplements that, uh, can have some antiviral effects. So you've got, you've got those going on. Um, and two of them that are real interesting


So, um, the, um, and so we're, we're using that with a lot of patients and generally I would, and, and the designs for health as the company is amazing. And so they have a lot of these products. Unfortunately, almost every company is, is out of stock of all of all these products for our patients. We have some, some amazing forms of quercetin, aurine, and, uh, a number of flavonoids that have antiviral effects.

And so we're gonna start doing telemedicine and then offering those for patients. That's interesting. And then, you know, the, the, the sweet spot is going to be when we combine a robust approach that, uh, involves all of the best parts of eastern medicine and western medicine in a thoughtful way that's tailored to each individual patient.

Because what might be right for you might not be right for Tim. And so we have to kinda dig through patient's medical histories and kinda figure them. Yep. That makes so much good sense to me. Fascinating. Fascinating. Well, let's see what tomorrow brings. Okay. It's, um, it's totally a pleasure to talk to you, Richard.

So we'll, well, maybe we'll just talk at the same time tomorrow. Why don't we, um, I'm, you know, I, I'll bring the kinda patient, civilian side of this to bear and, um, and you'll bring of course the, the deep dive from, from the physician standpoint and, um, it'll, this is a fast moving situation that is for sure.

And then bring, um, bring, if you kind of, we'll invite JJ again. But then if you have anybody that has any knowledge, uh, about this, I would love to have them. And feel free to have them pepper me with questions and we'll see how I do. Yeah, I'm going to invite Terry Cochran to come on tomorrow. Um, you may not know Terry, but she will be able to add a lot to the conversation, so, uh, same time, same phone number.

Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot. You're the best. You're the best. Talk to you later. Okay. Bye.

Tune in to our first Q&A with Richard Rossi, creator and host of The daVinci50 &  celebrity nutrition expert JJ Virgin . Hear Dr. Cook’s reaction to yesterday’s announcement by President Trump around the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a potential coronavirus drug, among other discussion points.

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